L.C. SMITH Shotgun I.D. Help

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I am trying to find out some information on a shotgun that belongs to my mother-in-law. The shotgun may be old and valuable, or it may just be old.

It is a double-barrel L.C. Smith, 30 inch barrel, double-hammer gun. It appears to be a Syracuse pre-1886 hammer gun, bar action Center Draft Lock. Just forward of the breach, between the barrels it has identifying marks that state the following: L.C.SMITH, MAKER. SYRACUSE, N.Y. STUB TWIST. Both side plates have L.C. SMITH stamped, just forward of the hammer location. Underneath the forearm the following is stamped: PAT'D JUNE.1.-80. It has a serial number 11XXX. From what I can determine on the internet, the gun was made in Syracuse NY in the early 1880s. The gun also has double triggers.

I will attach some pictures so you can see what I am dealing with. What may appear to be a dent in the barrel is actually my shadow while leaning over closely and trying to take the photo. Anyone know the value of this gun? I would say it is in normal condition for a gun this old, certainly not perfect. Thanks for your comments!
 

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I believe those were the Mosseberg of their day. Whenever I see one at a gun shop, the tag will say wallhanger and they are priced between $250-$350 but usually they look a little worse off than yours.
 
I don't know a thing about it but I would advise you not to shoot it. It probably has Damascus barrels.
Jim
 
The SYRACUSE guns as they are called by L C Smith collectors, were made before 1890. No records appear to have survived. I have a book by Brodey (sp) on the L C Smiths in my library, but it is not with me tonight. Memory says you are correct on the manufacture in the 1880's. Probably mid 1880's. I have two receivers that I remember that the serial numbers are near yours but they are hammerless. These guns were all "hand made" and parts are not interchangeable. Trust me on that one, I still am trying to get one to work using parts from a parts gun and have not succeeded yet. Do not have a clue on value, but would agree that it is probably in the $200-300 dollar range for a wall hanger. That engraving appears to be the "field grade" that looks like the two in my possession. Some people shoot Damascus, but I never have. I shoot my 1929 skeet special a lot and have my grandfathers LC that was made in 1901. The barrels were fluid steel and they gave out on my father 50 years ago, so it is still shootable, but has aftermarket barrels and a new stock by me. (most difficult stocking job one can undertake, IMHO). Building a rustic hunting shack in the middle of the mountains and could be interested in a purchase if you wanted to sell, I really do not know what its worth, but my collection of doubles in the safe does consist of only L C Smiths, so I would make a true wall hanger of it, since its a hammer gun. I have a Model 3 in 32 S&W that is going on a peg once the cabin is finished. It was made in the 1890's. Bottom line, you will never determine year of manufacture, as the records do not exist. check out the L C Smith collectors association web site and forums if you desire.
 
That dent in the right barrel looks to be at the end of the chamber, that means it can not be safely repaired. the barrels appear to have been cut. Other than any sentimental value it may have, parting it out will bring your best value. As a gun there is no value. Mark
 
I do not agree "at this time" that the barrels appear to "have been cut". OP says they are 30 inches. I an not near my L C Smith book or the two guns in my possession, so I will defer a good answer later. I am trying to make a "cut off" gun that looks like a "coach gun" into a working gun. The other gun I purchased for parts was a complete gun in tough shape outside, but it had all the internals to put back inside the "coach gun that had been robed for parts, Both of these guns are the old guns from the 1880 and both were purchased for the price of $ 150. All that said, I have a set of original barrels to measure and I think at this time they are around 30 inches. Remember, the OP says that dent is a shadow from the photography work and a close inspection of the photo looks that way to me. I think the OP has a nice (to be 130 years old) L C Smith Hammer gun. I just do not think that its worth several hundreds of dollars. The sidelock "Elsie's" were a lot different that all those box locks that almost all the other makers starting producing. Almost every one of these old guns has broken stocks, especially inside, because of thin wood in a lot of places that is required because of the way they were designed and made. I only shoot the two I have because they both have new stocks made by me and reinforced some with accuraglas. I have a few stocks laying around and everyone of them would make nice splitter firewood because of all the cracks inside. Only a L C Smith collector would have much interest in paying a premium for this old gun and since no records exist of manufacture, my involvement over the years on the L C Smith forum has lead me to believe that most people are not interested in any of these guns made in Syracuse, as the company was sold in 1890 and that is somewhat the baseline beginning of the collectors guns. This is my thoughts only as I am not very deep in the collection of these guns, just have my Grandfathers old gun that was the only shotgun my dad ever owned, that I learned to shoot with, have hunted with and still own and then I acquired an almost new 1929 skeet gun with the single hunter trigger that had no stock (I am sure is was broken and was discarded). Guy I purchased it from had a new French walnut stock from Fajen in exhibition grade to go with the gun. It has taken a few quail and a few pheasants and is one of my prize guns. ok, morning rambling over.
 
More Info

Thanks to everyone for your comments so far. I broke the shotgun down further (into three pieces). The serial number 114xx was the same on all three parts. The patent info I noted earlier was on the forearm. I found a different number under the barrel, and on top of (what must be the water table?). This info was: Pat'd. March 20. 83.
 
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It looks like what they called a Quality F ,,,. They ran from Quality F up to Quality AA at the top.
The F had Stub Twist bbls,,advertised as 'English Stub Twist'. The stocks were English Walnut on all grades. Just better quality as the grade increased.
The F had checkered stock and forend. All grades had checkering, more of it and more complex patterns as the grades went up.

IIRC the F retailed for around $45/$50 in the mid 1880's.

The orig LCS company only made them for about 5 years.
Then the LCS company as it was owned by Lyman C. Smith was sold to the Hunter Bros. of Fulton NY.
Hunter continued to make the hammer guns into the 1930's. But the original LC Smith /Syracuse mfg guns are few,,perhaps 5000 total in all 'Quality grades'. Most saw hard service as lower grade guns.

Syracuse LCS hammer guns are sometimes refered to as Type I hammer guns,,the Hunter production guns as Type II.
1898 was about the start of the Hunter era production.

Looks like yours may have had the twist bbls buffed and reblued. Some pitting looks dragged out from buffing a little. The blue perhaps a rust blue instead of a hot blue. (That's a plus)
Checkering may be worn or scraped /sanded off. But it was originally checkered in a simple but effective pattern.

Most of these will have the 'Quality' letter mark on the water table and also on the bbl flats. A simple F stamped somewhere on those surfaces. But it's not a sure thing and some, especially the lower grades may have that missing.

They were available in 12 or 10 gauges.
These hammer LCS's are 'real' side lock guns,,as opposed to the hammerless LCS guns which are back-action sidelocks. That statement gets alot of collectors going!
They were nicely made and fitted. A Syracuse production gun in collector condition brings excellent $$. No so for the refinished specimens. But if the bores are excellent, bbls uncut and the mechanics good, there's isn't such a long way to go to put it back to decent display condition for a collector.

Though I shoot some damascus and twist steel guns, I never advise others to do so without first doing their own research on the subject. Then make up their own mind about the subject, and determining wether each firearm in question is a good candidate or not of such activity. There is a lot too it and you should not go in to it with out research and knowledge.
When is doubt,,even the slightest,,don't.
 
You are correct. There is an "F" stamped on the water table and the barrel flats.
 
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