Lab grown diamonds

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CAJUNLAWYER

CAJUNLAWYER

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So my daughter is engaged and is showing off her lab grown diamond engagement ring. She says that the lab grown diamonds are better than natural and costs a lot less. I look at my wife(outside the hearing of my daughter) and ask if these lab grown diamonds are the same thing as those we used to call cubic zirconium. I got a dirty STFU look. Hell, I think it's great that my future SIL got my daughter to agree to a fake diamond! He even got her ot agree that it makes more sense-Think I will grow to like the boy.
 
"Despite all the similarities, there is a growing gulf in price, resale value and overall desirability for lab-created diamonds vs. natural diamonds." Diamond Pro, online.

I had a good friend who was a jeweler. He set me straight when I was buying a diamond ring for my wife for our 40th. You can tell a natural diamond from a natural diamond. The natural diamonds have flaws and color from their billions of years of age in a natural environment. The lab diamonds are close to perfect. Actually more regular crystal growth than the natural one. So they can be told apart.
Value? Is a first Gen Colt SAA worth more than a modern Uberti copy? depends on your point of view.
 
I was a (GIA) gemologist, diamond buyer and appraiser for 30 years before I retired. Lab grown diamonds were becoming more available as the process developed. They are indistinguishable from natural because they are diamonds unlike CZ, moissanite or any other material that "looks" similar.
Lab grown diamonds now have virtually zero resale value as they have become a common, cheap to produce product. I think that's fine for things like earrings and bracelets, but an engagement ring has a different sentiment. Sure, no one will ever be able to tell the difference, but a natural diamond will carry value over time and have far more meaning as it's handed down to future generations. I don't expect current generations to understand that as they're too busy living in a world that I no longer recognize or can relate to on any meaningful level.
 
It’s all buyer psychology and propaganda. You can say the same about the grading of natural diamonds. Why should the presence of a few more nearly invisible defects or an indistinguishable shift in color between grades result in huge value differences? Sort of like why is a Rolex so much more expensive than a quartz Timex, when the Timex is probably a far more accurate timekeeper than a Rolex?
 
According to Scottish John - you broke the code! His name is John and he’s from Scotland.
He worked for a number of years as a De Beers computer analyst in South Africa.
John says that its true. Those folks have vaults full of diamonds.
They are very methodical and calculated how they release diamonds to the market.
Hey! I have a Rolex.
Got it in Hong Kong through the US Navy.
 
DWalt said:
It’s all buyer psychology and propaganda. You can say the same about the grading of natural diamonds. Why should the presence of a few more nearly invisible defects or an indistinguishable shift in color between grades result in huge value differences? Sort of like why is a Rolex so much more expensive than a quartz Timex, when the Timex is probably a far more accurate timekeeper than a Rolex?
Click to expand...
Or more aptly, a $15,000 Rolex or a $500 clone; almost indistinguishable, except for an expert with a microscope.
 
DWalt said:
It’s all buyer psychology and propaganda. You can say the same about the grading of natural diamonds. Why should the presence of a few more nearly invisible defects or an indistinguishable shift in color between grades result in huge value differences? Sort of like why is a Rolex so much more expensive than a quartz Timex, when the Timex is probably a far more accurate timekeeper than a Rolex?
Click to expand...
The fact that any natural gemstone survived the formation process in itself is a fluke of nature. Barely discernible changes in color and impurities between grades in high quality diamonds directly correspond to rarity (not beauty). That's what is so hard for people to understand. It's just logical to assume a higher quality (and thus more expensive) diamond will LOOK better. The fact is, in the higher grades (VS2 and above) it's simply not true. Were not even talking about the effect that cut geometry has on beauty and price. Enough said.
The Rolex comparison is flawed. A $50 quartz watch will out perform a $10,000 Rolex or even a 100k Patek. You're not paying for accuracy. You're buying the ART of watch making at it finest. Same with art. Some folks are happy with a velvet Elvis. Some prefer Van Gogh.
I am neither defending or condemning the argument either way. I'm only pointing out the differences.
 
I’ve had a few Rolex clones.
Got them in trades.
They looked pretty close on the front, side by side with a real one.
But the backs- not even close!
We didn’t need a microscope to tell they were fakes!
 
CH4 said:
Or more aptly, a $15,000 Rolex or a $500 clone; almost indistinguishable, except for an expert with a microscope.
Click to expand...
Don't need a microscope to distinguish between them. People only buy the knockoffs so they can fool everyone into thinking they have an expensive iconic watch. Nothing more than a status symbol. Nothing wrong with that unless you carry yourself as someone you're not.
 
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rays44 said:
Don't need a microscope to distinguish between them. People only buy the knockoffs so they can fool everyone into thinking they have an expensive iconic watch. Nothing more than a status symbol. Nothing wrong with that unless you carry yourself as someone you're not.
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Some of the latest clones are really that good. Living/working in Asia, I see both regularly. The best clones I’ve found were in HK and Saigon. These were running $750 to $1k and were indistinguishable without a loupe or close scrutiny. I have 4 legit Rolex and two $39 clone subs I picked up in Hanoi, which are still 95% of the real deal. They’re even cloning $500 Seikos. Caveat emptor.
 
THE PILGRIM said:
According to Scottish John - you broke the code! His name is John and he’s from Scotland.
He worked for a number of years as a De Beers computer analyst in South Africa.
John says that its true. Those folks have vaults full of diamonds.
They are very methodical and calculated how they release diamonds to the market.
Hey! I have a Rolex.
Got it in Hong Kong through the US Navy.
Click to expand...
I know nothing about the Diamond trade, other than that DeBeers is essentially a cartel that controls a very high percentage of mining and distribution of stones, and can therefore control the market price by selective release from their huge inventory of stones. In effect they are in the business of creating artificial scarcity and maintaining prices at a high level of an otherwise fairly common commodity. It’s a certainty that DeBeers has no love of man-made diamonds having perfect color and clarity, and could theoretically be made in unlimited quantity. I can’t think of any other product in which perfection is actually a negative property for its pricing.

The closest watch to a Rolex I own is an Invicta Pro Diver. It has always been reliable, keeps very good time, and to the naked eye from more than three feet away, it is indistinguishable from a Rolex Submariner. And at less than 1% of the price of a Rolex.
 
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Some great humor has been inserted throughout this thread. I could care-a-less between real vs. lab grown. But then again they ain’t for me, they are all about pleasing my wife, that being said I went with real over lab grown. Happy wife happy life, on my way to BPS, 4473 Ruger American Gen2 predator.
 
Hopefully, the rock still comes in a gold band.
 
I would think that buying a fake diamond would be telling the prospective bride that she wasn't worth the real deal. I know that is old fashioned thinking and that the younger generations don't buy into the habits of us aging baby boomers. There is nothing wrong with that kind of philosophy as long as everyone is working out of the same play book.

Since about 45% of first marriages end in divorce, perhaps you don't need a "diamonds are forever" stone . ;)

My wife and I were so poor, we didn't buy her a diamond until we had been married for several years and then bought it on time, but it was a very nice stone. That was over 50 years ago and that diamond is still sitting on her 5' from where I am typing.
 
I have two daughters, both engaged, one got a smaller natural stone the other a larger grown stone, both are happy.

Honestly, I’m over all the scams like engagements, weddings, and having babies. It’s fine to celebrate life’s milestones, but spending the cost of a small house to celebrate a handful of events seems idiotic.

I’m not getting a sympathetic ear at home, so I’m telling you.
 
Wish Tiffany did Lab Grown diamonds. We are not luxury people at all! Prius with 240,000 miles kinda family.

My wife wanted a bigger diamond ring for our 20th. We went to Tiffany for a 1ct classic ring, cost me $20,000! ouch it paused my gun buying for a long time
 
Jimbo41 said:
I have two daughters, both engaged, one got a smaller natural stone the other a larger grown stone, both are happy.

Honestly, I’m over all the scams like engagements, weddings, and having babies. It’s fine to celebrate life’s milestones, but spending the cost of a small house to celebrate a handful of events seems idiotic.

I’m not getting a sympathetic ear at home, so I’m telling you.
Click to expand...


Wife and I got married at county clerk's office.

Spent about $1800 on a catered party a month later.

Invited about 50 close friends and relatives, clearly specified NO GIFTS.

Never had kids.

I think we came out wayyyyy ahead in the saving money area.

More money for guns and her hobbies
 
When lab created diamonds first came to the jewelry market about 30 years ago they were nearly as expensive as mined from the earth diamonds But the process has been improved and speeded up over the years so the cost now is much less.
Yes, they test diamond with all standard diamond testers
Yes, they can be certified by GIA and other diamond grading companies.
Comparison of prices:
1ct lab diamond $500-1200
1ct natural diamond $1200-15,000
 
Man-made industrial diamonds have been manufactured for over 60 years, maybe even longer. I once had a friend who was a maintenance supervisor at General Electric’s diamond factory in Columbus, Ohio. At least back then, the diamonds were very small, OK for cutting tools, abrasives, etc., too small for jewelry. Seems that the size limitation is not as restrictive as it once was. How large can man-made diamonds be today?
When my wife and I got engaged, we lived in Cleveland. We went to Cleveland’s Diamond district and shopped all of the Jewish Diamond merchants, and bought a 1/2 ct. stone she liked and got it set in a ring. Don’t remember worrying much about color and clarity, just appearance and price. We didn’t have any money to speak of back then. Ring was later stolen when our house was broken into, was not replaced for about ten years, got a ring with another half-carat stone. Wife was a nurse, and didn’t wear her engagement ring very often. She still wears it only on special occasions, not every day.
 
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Is a lab diamond like a lab grown steak? Hmmmmmm, I got lucky. She used her father's wedding band and she went out an got me a wedding band like hers. She just wanted everyone to know that I was off the market. That was some 34 odd years ago.
 
Before the advent of commercially viable lab grown diamonds, in the 90's there was something called "clarity enhanced" diamonds, also known as fracture filled. The process essentially took a lower quality diamond with visible imperfections and made them appear to have a much higher clarity grade, even under a microscope. The analogy I used was the way "white out" masked typed or written mistakes on paper. The mistake is still there, but only masked to look like it wasn't. The concept was brilliant (to take a natural diamond and make it more affordable) and they sold for half the price of their un-enhanced counterparts. Problem was, many unscrupulous jewelers sold them as regular diamonds as it was an easy sale (scam) without full disclosure. The bad press eventually made them radioactive.
Lab created diamonds have taken the "more bang for the buck" concept to its zenith. It's the AI of the gemstone world. Ain't progress wonderful?
 
Serious question for anyone and everyone:

We can all agree that a lab grown diamond will never be worth as much as a natural diamond down the road after you have purchased an owned it.

But -who- is selling diamonds later after they have owned it? And wouldn’t anyone/everyone be royally appalled at what’s honestly possible to get out of your pre-owned natural diamond on the secondary market if you should happen to sell it?

We often note the value of a new car dropping like a rock the moment you drive it off the dealer’s lot but please tell me what a pricey natural diamond’s resale or trade-in value is for any regular Joe who isn’t hooked up in the gold & diamond trade?
 
Sevens said:
Serious question for anyone and everyone:

We can all agree that a lab grown diamond will never be worth as much as a natural diamond down the road after you have purchased an owned it.

But -who- is selling diamonds later after they have owned it? And wouldn’t anyone/everyone be royally appalled at what’s honestly possible to get out of your pre-owned natural diamond on the secondary market if you should happen to sell it?

We often note the value of a new car dropping like a rock the moment you drive it off the dealer’s lot but please tell me what a pricey natural diamond’s resale or trade-in value is for any regular Joe who isn’t hooked up in the gold & diamond trade?
Click to expand...
I advised people about this all the time. In the traditional sense, a diamond is not a good "investment" at all. Good luck getting half your money back the first year. What makes it an awesome non traditional investment is time and purpose. When nearly every other traditional purchase wears out and depreciates over time, (yes I know there are exceptions) a diamond does the opposite. It provided your wife with a lifetime smile as a symbol of your time together. In a monetary sense, its value over time, meets and far exceeds its purchase price. Bulls**t you say. No, fact based on experience. I have appraised thousands of diamonds that were worth well above what was originally paid 10, 20, 30 years or more prior. I have purchased diamonds for above what people originally paid in the distant past. Still not a good "traditional" investment (stock market, gold, etc would have been much better), but a solid one none the less. Now you pass the thing on to your son or daughter and you have generational value. Priceless.
 
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I think Diamonds are not that rare in the Universe. Pressure + Heat = diamond. Why are they SO EXPENSIVE?

😆 we all know why! 😆
 
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