LabRadar LX - Garmin C1 competition

[Tom K]

It was mentioned in this thread ( https://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/715585-garmin-xero-review.html ) that LabRadar might be coming out with a new unit to compete with the Garmin C1. I got an email just today from LabRadar that seems to confirm that. LabRadar LX - New Product- Preorder for late March Delivery – Labradar

Here's what the page says:

LabRadar LX - New Product- Preorder for late March Delivery
Regular price$599.95

Expected ship date Mar 20-Apr 3

No charge until pre-order ships. Free cancellation at any time.

Pre-order protected by Purple Dot Learn more

The Labradar LX is the latest generation of Doppler Radar Chronographs. Brought to you by Infinition, the original inventors of the personal Doppler Radar Chronographs. Labradar is used by more ELR shooters than any other chronograph.

It is packed with features including:

Tough Metal Case
Extreme Accuracy of +/- 0.1%
Use for Rifles, Pistol, Archery, Air Guns, Paintball, Shotgun Slugs
Long Lasting Internal Rechargeable Battery
Velocity Range of 65 to 5,000 fps.
Bright LCD Screen for outdoor viewing
Built in IPSC / IDPA Power Factor and Ke Calculator
Displays Average, ES, SD, Min, Max Velocity
Compact size : 2.5" X 2.75" X 2.75"
Bluetooth Mobile App
Tripod included
MADE IN CANADA
Whats in the box: Labradar LX, USB charging cable, tripod with extendable legs.


Looks a bit chunkier than the Garmin. No mention of the original LabRadar's ability to track and give real velocities at ranges past the muzzle.

 

[Nemo288]

I got that same email this afternoon.
The race will really heat up when we can see a side by side comparison with maybe some challenging conditions.
Garmin did get the jump on them so LabRadar will have to offer something a little better.
Or they will have to lower the price some to compete.
Pre-ordering usually means they are testing the market waters to see how much interest there really is before launching a full manufacturing effort.
They would be smart to release some early to journalists like Brian Pearce who could do the testing I mentioned.
That all takes time and meanwhile Garmin is selling all they can make.

 

[TheTinMan]

And I finally broke down and bought the old Labradar a few months before the Garmin came out… somebody call the WHAAaaaambulance!

 

[cmj8591]

That's a really nice unit and will get a lot of interest. After using the Garmin for several weeks, I think these types of units are the only way to go. Mine lives in my shooting bag and requires about 2 minuets to set up. I'm sure the LabRadar will be the same. I hope they have a better way to interface with a Windows computer because the Garmin system is just a bit cumbersome. It's not unusable, just inconvenient. For those of you who don't want to wait, as of this posting, MidwayUSA has the Garmin in stock.

 

[Nemo288]

I was looking for the LabRadar LX manual but can't find one yet.
I like reading the manual for all kinds of instruments even If I am not going to get one.
Here's hoping they use the same SD card system to store data.
That makes it easy to transfer to a PC without fooling around with an app.

 

[Borderboss]

It's an interesting email from LabRadar. They're probably trying to freeze the market by hoping to keep some people from buying a Garmin now by waiting a few months for theirs to come out. It's not a bad marketing move, but if they miss their deadline, they'll lose a lot of customers who will be P.O.'ed.

 

[Yendor357]

Ive heard of used Lab Radars going for $300. Those things sold for well over $1000. And they didn't work all that well. I know several guys that bought Lab Radars that now own Garmins, that wouldn't take a Lab Radar product if you gave it to them. I'm glad I never bought one.

I recently bought a Garmin from Sheel's. I can't say enough good things about it. My MagnetoSpeed worked reasonably well for years, was cheap, but is a great big step down from the Garmin. The MS did not work for handguns. If you're not chrono-ing your handgun loads, you're just guessing. That's what I was doing until recently.

I had a 185, 45ACP load that was "by the book" and way too hot. My tank of a 45, a 645 didn't seem to mind, but I took that ammo all apart. I re-did them with a much more reasonable charge. My 3 and 4 inch Pythons both shoot faster than my old mid 80s 686. Honest.

Downloading an ap is simple and painless. No SD card to misplace. The Garmin is the best gun purchase I've made in years. Maybe ever.

 

[cmj8591]

The problem with the Garmin software is that it is geared towards mobile devices. If you like to work off of a Windows device, you have to move the data from the mobile device to the Windows device. The files are on the unit but in order to go directly from the unit to your computer, you have to convert the files to .csv. I know there is software out there to do that but it is a PIA. There is nothing wrong with the Garmin app and if you are a person who works off of your phone, you probably won't care. I keep loose leaf books for my precision stuff so I like to use an Excell sheet that I can print out and file with my targets and notes. The app gives you the ability to save your data as a .csv so what I do is save it to my iPad then mail it to myself so that I can open it on my lap top. Not the end of the world, but it's about the only thing I can find to complain about when it comes to the Xero. It's pretty obvious that LabRadar got beaten to the market by Garmin on these micro units. As another poster said, they probably announced their new unit to try and stop the bleeding. If I were a betting man, I would put money on the fact that they won't be ready for that March date. The LabRadar is a good tool, and as I said in my review, if I had one that was working well, I wouldn't go out and get rid of it just to change. I've used the LabRadar and I really liked it, it's just that the Garmin is on another planet when it comes to handiness.

 

[rockquarry]

I realize this post will likely be ignored or scoffed at by newschoolers and appers, but I still use a notebook for recording velocities and can also make notes on accuracy, group sizes, range conditions, firearm type, barrel length, etc. All of this is very useful information to me. Maybe "apps" allow you to do all these things as well; I don't know.

Perhaps there is still a place for a paper notebook and pen even when using the latest equipment.

 

[Borderboss]

The problem with the Garmin software is that it is geared towards mobile devices. If you like to work off of a Windows device, you have to move the data from the mobile device to the Windows device.

Over the past two years I've had to do studies about the usage of mobile devices versus desktop/laptop full computers to understand website usage. The use of mobile devices as a main technology device is 50/50 with computers at this point, and growing. Garmin's choice of using an app as the main technology interface with the chrono device was a smart one.

By the way, I was an early adopter years ago of the Windows phone and loved it. But I was in the minority and finally had to give it up because Microsoft realized the iPhone and Android phones were always going to eat their lunch. But I have Office 365 running on my Samsung phone right now, so pulling up an Excel spreadsheet on it is easy. I'm sure there's an app that can easily convert the Garmin files on the phone to XLSX.

 

[alwslate]

The Garmin that I ordered from Optics Planet a couple of months ago has finally shipped and is supposed to be delivered tomorrow. My intention is the same as mentioned above. Create my own reference and loading manual with old fashioned pen and paper.

 

[cmj8591]

I realize this post will likely be ignored or scoffed at by by newschoolers and appers, but I still use a notebook for recording velocities and can also make notes on accuracy, groups sizes, range conditions, firearm type, barrel length, etc. All of this is very useful information to me. Maybe "apps" allow you to do all these things as well; I don't know.

Perhaps there is still a place for a paper notebook and pen even when using the latest equipment.

Most newschoolers and appers are too busy playing video games to get into the shooting sports and go to the range.

 

[rockquarry]

Most newschoolers and appers are too busy playing video games to get into the shooting sports and go to the range.

I'm unfamiliar with video games (probably boring for me but I'm sure others enjoy such activities) though I do spend a good bit of time developing and chronographing loads. I've had and used six chronographs over the last forty+ years. Granted, they've come a long ways.

 

[TheTinMan]

I realize this post will likely be ignored or scoffed at by newschoolers and appers, but I still use a notebook for recording velocities and can also make notes on accuracy, group sizes, range conditions, firearm type, barrel length, etc. All of this is very useful information to me. Maybe "apps" allow you to do all these things as well; I don't know.

Perhaps there is still a place for a paper notebook and pen even when using the latest equipment.

Thank you. I almost always write down the velocity of every shot even though it's "in memory." I guess it's a holdover from my CED chronograph days. Sometimes that thing just took a dump along with all of a day's data. Or maybe it's my age…

 

[Rotorhead1026]

The Garmin is the best gun purchase I've made in years. Maybe ever.

Well, you sorta need the gun, too.

 

[teletech]

So, here's the new question: With the Garmin unit running $600 and a ton of used LabRadars on Ebay for ~$300, what's the call there?
I'm sort of amused by the velocity distance curve, but I'm not sure if I'd actually use it or not.
Obviously, if the new LabRadar product gives that functionality then it's the best of the three.

 

[Electraclyde]

I do like the front controls vs the top on the Garmin. I also like the extendable tripod legs that Garmin does not have. However, I already own the Garmin and expext it to outlast me, so no plans on this new Lab Radar.

 

[DWalt]

Maybe the next version of the Apple iPhone will have a built-in chronograph.

 

[cmj8591]

Maybe the next version of the Apple iPhone will have a built-in chronograph.

You hang it on a target stand at 100yds and shoot it with your 30-06 and it will send the data to the cloud. And you only have to pay an additional $8.95 a month to subscribe to Apple Ballistics.

 

[cmj8591]

So, here's the new question: With the Garmin unit running $600 and a ton of used LabRadars on Ebay for ~$300, what's the call there?
I'm sort of amused by the velocity distance curve, but I'm not sure if I'd actually use it or not.
Obviously, if the new LabRadar product gives that functionality then it's the best of the three.

Right now, after having used the Garmin for a few weeks, I would shell out the extra money for it if I were buying new. If I had a LabRadar, I wouldn't dump it just to get the Garmin. Unless you really need the additional range calculations, the Garmin is just way more convenient. The ease of use at the range makes up for the LabRadars easier data movement. At least for me. I don't have a lot of confidence that the new LabRadar unit will be available soon but I'm sure it will be just as good as the Garmin when it gets here.

 

[Borderboss]

So, here's the new question: With the Garmin unit running $600 and a ton of used LabRadars on Ebay for ~$300, what's the call there?
I'm sort of amused by the velocity distance curve, but I'm not sure if I'd actually use it or not.
Obviously, if the new LabRadar product gives that functionality then it's the best of the three.

Good question. For me, I could have bought a LabRadar whenever I wanted. It wasn't the cost that stopped me. It was the size and that it would be unwieldy at an indoor range, which is where I shoot 100% of the time. For me and my usage, I wouldn't use the current LabRadar if I was given one for free.

As far as the functionality at different distances, it's amusing but I have had that for years by using the ShootersCalculator.com ballistic trajectory calculator here. Certainly atmospheric conditions will affect the velocity somewhat, but those conditions are transitory, so the numbers you get today won't hold true tomorrow or whenever you're out hunting, if that's what you use that info for.

If/when LabRadar comes out with their Garmin copy, it'll end up being a "beauty contest" to choose which you want. I've got the Garmin and it meets 100% of my needs.

 

[BE Mike]

Garmin has a lot of success in their background, which makes me think that they have the engineering staff and production staff to make a great product. Labradar has a steep uphill battle, I recon. That being said, I never had a chronograph and never felt the need to have one. I did have a Ransom Rest which told me everything I needed to know about my handgun loads as accuracy was my primary interest.

 

[burneyr]

Having used the Xero, Labradar has their work cut out for them.

Just went back to Labradar's website - they dropped the price $125 on the standard unit, and now are throwing in the $50 tripod.

I think it's going to be too little too late. Crazy how many used Labradar units are out there CHEAP.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

But I have Office 365 running on my Samsung phone right now, so pulling up an Excel spreadsheet on it is easy.
I'm sure there's an app that can easily convert the Garmin files on the phone to XLSX.

Sure opening a .xls is easy on a smartphone. Try reading & navigating a multi-page/multi-column spreadsheet on the tiny screen of one though.

Excel can open .csv files. Just put the data in the format you want, add any supporting data you want & save it as .xls.

For me it's best done on my desktop PC with a keyboard, mouse & its 32" monitor. Yeah, call me old-school.

.

...I still use a notebook for recording velocities and can also make notes on accuracy, group sizes, range conditions, firearm type, barrel length, etc.
Perhaps there is still a place for a paper notebook and pen even when using the latest equipment.

There is, if you have both as an option, specifically the digital format choice.

I create a paper sheet formatted with the basics before I head out for testing & add test results as I progress.

The saved digital files & the paper records each have their own purpose for me.

.

 

[BC38]

HOORAY! The more the competition heats up the more the prices will come down!
I may be able to afford one of these new-style units sooner than I thought!

 

[BE Mike]

HOORAY! The more the competition heats up the more the prices will come down!
I may be able to afford one of these new-style units sooner than I thought!

IDK, it seems like the tech companies always find ways to add new features and raise the prices. Who'd a thunk decades ago that one would spend over a grand for a telephone?

 

[stansdds]

IDK, it seems like the tech companies always find ways to add new features and raise the prices. Who'd a thunk decades ago that one would spend over a grand for a telephone?

I remember a time when a phone that fit into your pocket was the fantasy of fiction.

 

[RGPM1A]

Just tried my new Garmin Xero. Shot a 22 rifle and a 9mm handgun at 50 ft indoor and 50 yd outdoor range.

22 rifle (40gr Blazer):

50ft - 1245fps 12fps SD
50yd - 1239fps 19.5fps SD

9mm Compensated Race gun (147gr RN):
50ft - 923fps 11.4 SD
50yd - 948fps 16.6 SD

Side by Side Side comparison to Competition Electronics Pro Chrono DLX/Xero@ 50yd:

22 cal rifle - 1239fps 19.5 SD/1239fps 12fps SD
9mm racegun -919fps 16fps SD/948fps 16.3fps SD

For the side by side comparison both units were set up to record shot data simultaneously. The DLX was set up 6ft in front of the firearm muzzle and the Xero was set up as directed.


This was a quick and dirty test run. YMMV.

Edit: I forgot to add comments about the Garmin ShotView software and the chronograph itself. Unless I am missing something (please correct me if I am wrong) the software is just a means to store your session data. It does not allow you to set up shot session attributes (load specs) ahead of time. And it does not appear that the shot data is recorded to the mobile device in real time. You can only set them up on the Xero itself and sync the recorded data later. So the software is pretty crappy.

The completion Electronics app is lightyears ahead. You can set up all the different loads you want to test in advance and record them on the mobile device as they are being generated. The results are even spoken out by the app on you mobile device as they are being recorded.

The Xero itself is a really nice device - way easier to set up than a conventional chronograph. If the software would allow setting up sessions ahead of time it would only take seconds to start recording data. It is also a bit slow in recording a shot. It takes at least several seconds to record a shot. If you shoot too fast it will miss the shot and you will lose the data for that shot . Several times the Garmin unit lost data during a string if I shot too fast. The DLX unit did not have that problem.

As far as the discrepancy between the velocity data between the two devices for 9mm it is a bit concerning. Since its only handgun data I don't think it's a really big deal for short distance pistols are usually shot at. But if you are a rifle shooter, or a long distance handgun shooter a percentage difference like this would be a really big deal. I wonder which chronograph was right.

 

[dogdoc]

As an owner of a lab radar , I can say my new Garmin xero is fantastic. Store it in my range bag, plop it on the bench and instantly know what my latest handloads are doing. No regrets on spending 600 bucks and the he11 with waiting on something that may be released in march . Instant gratification !!

 

[BC38]

IDK, it seems like the tech companies always find ways to add new features and raise the prices. Who'd a thunk decades ago that one would spend over a grand for a telephone?

True, but then again, who'd a thunk a decade ago that you could buy a 65" LED TV for under $500?
The more competition, the better.

FWIW, your $1,000 cell phone is essentially a micro miniaturized computer and the "early adopters" who insist on having the latest and greatest in computer technology ALWAYS pay a hefty premium to be able to say they have the latest whiz-bang model. Even though it will be superseded by the next great thing in mere months. At which point the price on their next-to newest version they just bought will start selling for progressively steeper discounted prices almost immediately. It's basically paying a high premium for bragging rights.

I've never played that game - and I'm a computer engineer! As far as I'm concerned the juice just ain't worth the squeeze. Getting a computer that is one or two generations behind the bleeding edge for half the price has always made more sense to me. Same with phones, because they are just another computer.