Ladysmith = "Girl Gun?"

[fpuhan]

My son-in-law and I are trying to get my daughter interested in a handgun. She has a shotgun for home defense, but we both think she ought to also have a carry weapon.

The problem is getting her interested in one. I've had her shoot my Sig P938 9mm and my XDs .45. She didn't like the feel of the Sig, but thought the .45 was "okay."

The two of us have suggested gun after gun: Kimber Solo, Diamondback DB9, Beretta Nano, M&P Shield, and the like. We both think she should pack 9mm or greater, so we're staying away from the .380s (although some are borderline close...).

So, I thought maybe she would think a revolver something more to her liking. I have a J frame 360 (that she hasn't shot yet) in .38 Special that is one of the guns in my EDC rotation.

I got to thinking: Some guns are designed more for women (the reason I have the Tanfoglio Witness Pavona; she thought it was too big), and isn't the Ladysmith from S&W in this category?

I've seen Ladysmith applied to both revolvers and semi-automatics. I found a Model 60LS that I think would be a keeper -- even in my collection -- and that was positively reviewed on The Well-Armed Woman web site.

Am I on the right track? Are there any guns matching my rather vague specification that I could mention to my daughter?

 

[bigwheelzip]

The 3913LS was getting honorable mention on the forum today.

 

[Named User]

Hard to say, my wife's a tiny woman only 5'4" has tiny hands and not much muscle. But her favorite shooter in the collection is actually my 8" .500 with 400 grain FMJs that she does well with. Only one round in the cylinder though for fear of the double tap. She caries a .38 bodyguard, and a 9mm star super B (all steal Spanish pistol simmer to a high power)

I'd definitely give give her a chance with a J frame, if you have one. Do you have the option of renting guns at a local range? Or is just that she has no real interest in any gun's?

 

[Named User]

Just let that high power simmer until the stakes finish cooking. Darn auto type.

Obviously that was supposed to say similar.

 

[Mehutch]

A girl and man in MMA can kick your butt for sure. A 158gr lead bullet is the same no mater what you call your gun.

 

[Taipan01]

There are a few differences in some Ladysmith products but for all intents and purposes on the J-frame lineup (as it seems the central part of your question), it's just the wood bantam grips and the Ladysmith badge.

 

[Misskimo]

Hard to say, my wife's a tiny woman only 5'4" has tiny hands and not much muscle. But her favorite shooter in the collection is actually my 8" .500 with 400 grain FMJs that she does well with. Only one round in the cylinder though for fear of the double tap. She caries a .38 bodyguard, and a 9mm star super B (all steal Spanish pistol simmer to a high power)

I'd definitely give give her a chance with a J frame, if you have one. Do you have the option of renting guns at a local range? Or is just that she has no real interest in any gun's?

Yep. My daughter likes it. Made up some loads for both my girls. The 230 gr .451 45 acp bullet in 460 case with 9 g of HS-6
With the bullet flush with the top of 460 case. Shoots like a 22 at 900fps

 

[AlHunt]

Show her this article on accessorizing her firearm:

Gun-Toting Women Give Rise To Firearms Fashion Accessories : NPR

 

[susieqz]

i love my model 15. the k frame works for me as does the all steel construction.
9mm in a plastic gun hurts me but 38 spc in a heavy gun doesn't.
for practice she needs a 22lr, my fav round.
it's just fun.

 

[Hapworth]

There are several excellent Lady Smith offerings old and new. There's been debate on the board as to whether they're any different save for stocks and roll marks; some are under the impression the LSs are sprung a little lighter, but there's no definitive proof of this. Having handled many and their non-LS counterparts, I think there's no difference, so best to concentrate on the firearm with the right configuration for the shooter.

That said, it seems you and your son-in-law are pushing a carry weapon on someone who doesn't want one. Given the training, mindset and responsibility required to properly carry and -- if needed -- deploy a personal defense weapon, might be better to let her make her own decisions.

 

[GyMac]

I was at the range when a man was having his daughter and SIL try a bunch of different guns Big guns, little guns, autos and revolvers. The one she liked best was my 4 inch model 10.

 

[Joe Hohmann]

From what you say, she is better off with a shotgun.

Lady Smith-wise, my personal opinion is that a 21oz short barrel gun shooting .357magnum loads is a joke, as well as a 14.5oz gun shooting .38 specials. Unless she is willing to do a lot of range shooting with it, it will probably fly from her hand after the first round.

 

[bowzette]

Start with a .22lr revolver. The DA pull will be harder but manageable on most revolvers. My LCR .22 is smooth and not overly difficult to shoot DA. Great cheap training and if she like shooting it maybe she will try a larger caliber later. If not having a gun is better than not having one, for most people, and no one is going to encourage her to shoot them with whatever she is pointing at them. Keep her away from the lite weight J frames- go all steel or move up to the model 10.

 

[Mister X]

I agree with the "let her decide" to a point, but someone lacking in knowledge and training cannot make an informed decision. No one should be forced to carry so gun, but a coherent, reasonable explanation of why it's warranted might be influential and make her more inclined to want to do so.

In terms of specific carry gun choices, consider how it will be carried and how it will likely be used. What may be the most comfortable gun to shoot at the range, will not likely be the most comfortable to carry. The gun most capable of accurate range shooting isn't necessarily the most effective effective weapon against a mugger or rapist at arms length. So, decisions should be made in proper context.

If the goal is to simply be prepared for self-defense rather than be a shooter, the snubnose revolver is a good choice. Expanded explanation from Massad Ayoob... The Real Ladies Gun -- Handguns

And I think the "hammerless" models make sense for a defense weapon, especially an inexperienced individual. The need for some type of long range, precision shot in a civilian self-defense situation is not at all probable, so single action simply isn't needed. And it's not sensible to train using SA since it won't be used in an actual defense scenario. Plus being DAO removes the possibility of cocking the weapon creating a "hair trigger", they are safer for carry as well as not allowing debris and lint to possibly work it's way into the action.

The enclosed hammer could also prove to be an advantage in a close-quarter struggle since the hammer can't be blocked or entangled in clothing.

A 642/442 would make a fine choice and you might consider standard pressure ammunition although the most effective defense loads are +P. My wife and mother have no issues managing and effectively firing the Airweights.

 

[xfarfuldog]

I went through this with my (25 at the time) daughter. Being stupid, I bought her several models to try. This included a Colt Magnum Carry, Ruger SP101, Browning BDA, Sig P230. She ended up liking my friends Glock 17. So that's what she has. My son and son in law were easy but not cheap. They have HK USP compact stainless 9's.

Let her try a few different guns and decide.

 

[dusty3030]

Her gun, her choice.
I suggest some type of laser grips or laser equipped no matter what the choice ends up being.
As far as triggers go on a carry revolver (this coming from a J frame fan) the Ruger LCR is the best of the breed IMO right now.

 

[ditrina]

S&W marketing understood that by removing the words LADYsmith and replacing with Airweight would increase sales and remove any stigma from men buying the gun. They were right!!

Ladysmith = 642 S&W Airweight.. .38 +P rated, no hammer to hang up.

I sold more of them to first time buyers BOTH men and women, than any other revolver. Ordered them 1000+ at a time.
AIRWEIGHT

LADYSMITH

 

[Jingles]

The only downside I see to getting a Ladysmith is it would cut your potential market in half if you ever decide to sell. Personally I would get a 642 with Crimson Trace laser grips. You can but new 642 with no lock.

 

[RubEric]

My Model 60 Ladysmith originally bought for my daugter:

 

[CATI1835]

I personally would not dismiss the .380 out of hand. Lots of good options in that round. Very viable option, IMO, with the proper round. My wife actually carries a S&W 432 Airweight in .32H&R Mag. I wouldnt want to take one of those rounds.

Bottom line, keep all options open and let HER decide. She will be more apt to carry a gun she can control and is happy with rather than one you believe she should carry.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

I am preparing to do the same thing with my 20 yr. old daughter who told me when she reaches her 21st birthday (Aug. 1st), she wanted to apply for her CHL. You will find that a K-frame is a larger revolver than a J-frame, and is heavier, but easier to shoot. The trigger pull (flat mainspring vs coiled mainspring) of a K-frame is smoother and feels lighter than that of a J-frame to many shooters. My daughter and wife both prefer the trigger pull on the Centennial designed J-frames (432 PD, Model 642, etc.) vs the exposed hammer design (Model 60) or concealed hammer design of the Bodyguard series (Model 38, 638, 49).

Good luck,

Dave

 

[CSMALLO]

One thing you have to make her realize is that size=comfort when firing a weapon. My wife had a Bodyguard 380/laser, until she fired it for the first time. I had tried to explain it to her when she bought it, but it took a women's only gun class at the range to show her. So now we are shopping for something more comfortable to shoot that isn't too big to carry.

 

[Sawfish]

My wife won a Lady Smith at a local sports banquet. I liked it so much that I appropriated it for my hunting back up gun. I had it Magnaported, and it is very controllable and easy to shoot with Pachmayer grips, even with 180 gr. .357 Magnum loads. I actually killed a deer with it after I blew my first shot with a Contender.

 

[hoosierboy57]

There's nothing wrong with a Kimber Micro .380 or SIG 238. Fill it with HST and all is well.

 

[first-model]

Am I the only one that's uncomfortable with the tone of this thread?

If your daughter isn't interested in carrying, then stop pushing her. The idea of her being pressured into carrying a deadly weapon that she may not be comfortable using isn't just silly—it's dangerous. You and your son-in-law may have the best of intentions, but trying to convince her (whether it's through scary "what if" scenarios, or statistics, or whatever) isn't going to be persuasive; it's simply going to push her into something that may make her incredibly uncomfortable.

And the idea that women will somehow become interested in guns because they can be accessorized is patently sexist. Let's give the fairer gender a bit more credit than that, OK?

My wife has no interest in firearms. She comes to the range occasionally and trains with me because she knows that it's a good skill to have (her words, not mine), but there's not a hope that I'd pressure her into it. If she organically develops the interest, then great. If not, then the best thing I can do is respect her decision.

Mike

 

[les.b]

As CSMALLOW pointed out above, the laws of physics apply, no matter how enticing a gun may appear, or how persuasive a sales pitch may be, the smaller and lighter and more appealing a gun is, the harder it will recoil with any effective cartridge. I have a large and varied collection of handguns, and my girlfriend tried any and all of those that she found appealing, and even some that I suggested. She actually shot them as well. After the dust cleared, she chose, with no prompting from me, the Smith and Wesson Model 10 2" with the round butt .38 Special, with 158 grain +P "FBI" loads. Sure, it is not a micro handgun. Doesn't look high tech. A little on the heavy side. But she feels confident with it. Practice ammo is cheap, I reload anyway. She can control the recoil. Remember, for any given cartridge, the heavier the gun, the less felt recoil, which is not just a comfort thing, it means that you are back on target quicker for a follow-up shot should you need one or more. I've been teaching men and women to shoot for more than 40 years, and the basics and the laws of physics don't change. New products come out, new ammo selections, the latest wonder bullet, etc., etc. But... Some things, like the fundamentals of good defensive shooting stay the same. We should adapt technology to our needs, not try to adapt ourselves to technology.

 

[ktb9780]

As far as personal defense is concerned you said she had a shotgun for the house and IMHO there is no better defense than the intentional loud racking of a 12 ga pump shotgun. It is internationally recognized and sends and instantaneous message that things are about to get serious and aim won't really matter!

 

[Deftone]

My wife likes my Bersa Thunder .380 as much as I do. Great for carry and fun to shoot. She carries her S/A EMP 9mm, it's really nice. I'm considering an EMP 4 for myself if they ever make it to Kalifornia.

 

[SeamasterSig]

Whether you and your son-in-law like it or not, if she's not interested, she won't carry a gun. Likewise if it's too heavy or bulky (have you seen the pockets in women's pants? Even a single 158 grain bullet might not fit). You can find a gun that the two of you guys think is perfect, but if she doesn't like it, she won't carry it.

You have to let her pick it out – or decline to carry without argument. If she's not ready and willing to take on the responsibility of carrying a gun, then she's better of going unarmed (and there are other personal defense options you can explore). If she feels like it's something she has to do just to please you, she'll just resent it... and not carry it or only carry it when she thinks you'll be paying attention. You see where this is going?

Any caliber she happily chooses to carry is better than none. Even one of the "mouse gun" calibers. Personally, I think a little Kahr P380 would be an excellent choice for a young adult or small woman. It's small and light, simple to use (no safety to fumble with or forget) and has a super-slick revolver-style trigger. And it will have plenty of snappy recoil with proper "+p" defensive ammo from the likes of Underwood Ammo or Buffalo Bore. Modern 380 ammo is far superior to the old stuff. But that's just me projecting my opinion on someone else.

Even a little pocket-sized thing of pepper spray is much better than nothing... if she makes of a point of always carrying it on her person. But if she doesn't agree that it's sensible, she won't even carry that. It may take a while for her to come around. Or she may never warm up to the idea. Be prepared for that and accept it if that's the case.

 

[eb07]

My wife prefers a Glock 19 and hates the snubnoses that i love.... it's really up to the shooter