Late 40's and PPC 50yd B27 sighting / vision

[SW CQB 45]

Howdy all......need some intell to make sure I am doin this correctly since I have only a few years in this.

I use corrective lenses for a clear front sight. I am pushing 50 and having to blink a lot for the haze of the head to appear clearer. Sometimes the right side of the head at 50 fades away.

I don't know if the angle of the sun, or a lack of concentration, or squinting trying to get a whole head in view so I can line up my front sight. With only seeing half or a fading side of the head....my brain is telling my trigger finger "NO!"

If this is normal....then I will deal with it.

Today.....1000 hrs, sun to my back, ptly cloudy, I left eye dominate and close my right eye for the clearest front sight and was constantly opening eyes, blinking to bring the head to a clear haze. I also lose the line of the shoulders.

I feel this is costing me precious seconds.

Thanks in advance

 

[KAC]

SW CQB 45,

I am 61+ and have used corrective lenses for about 15 years. My shooting glasses are set up like this, right eye dominant, right lens has the focal length set for the front sight with arms extended, left lens set for distance. I put these glasses on while I am getting my gear together, which gets my eyes used to the change in perscription. I have always shot handgun with my left eye closed. Through the 15 yard line I shoot centerhold and there is no problem with seeing the center of the target, although it gets pretty blurry at the 15. At the 25 yard line, Match 2, I shoot neck hold. Again, the aiming point is clear enough to allow me to keep, usually, 10's and X's in all 3 positions. I used to shoot Match 4 neck hold but find it easier to do it center hold now. Age and less practice/matches are the reason. At the 50 yard line I shoot head hold and the aiming area is real blurry. What I do is keep both eyes open until I get into position and then close my left eye, paying attention to how the head goes out of focus and where the center of the head is through that blur. The important thing is to hold the same place on that gob of mush for every shot. You have more room for error up and down than side to side. Having solid sitting, prone, left barricade and right barricade positions really helps, but, don't ignore trigger control, breath control and follow through for each shot. It's very easy to think to yourself that the gun needs to be fired quickly when it doesn't appear to be moving around on the target, but this will only cause the sights to be pulled off your aiming point. You have more time that you think you do at the 50 yard line. Some sort of timer - watch, stop watch, etc. - will help you figure out your timing for the 50 yard line. For me the timer is started when the targets turn and I don't look at it again until I move into the left hand barricade, where I should have about a minute and 15 seconds left. I usually start right hand barricade with about 35 to 40 seconds left. Of course, if problems occur I might have to speed up, but I have, over the years, adjusted my timing to anticipate the occasional oops.

You will find that most PPC shooters love to tell you what works for them. All you have to do is ask. Just don't do it while they are waiting for the targets to turn, or while they are making the first reload on the 7 yard line.

KAC

 

[MKT]

What KAC has said is almost exactly what I was going to write, my difference on the stopwatch is I don't look at it until going to right hand at the 50. Most times I hit right hand with 35-40 seconds left, once and a while I must take a nap in prone and only have 20 seconds left.

As to the blur of the target, again KAC is spot on. Let the target be a blur, don't try getting the target clear but keep the front sight crystal clear and hold to the same spot on/in the blob. The natural arc of motion will give the impression you are mocing off the target/aim point but in reality, even at 50 yards you maybe move the width of the X ring, you have to ingnore that perception of movement. There are times I would have swore I let one break high and to a side, bad enough I would have called it a miss, only to have my team match partner tell me it was an 11 o'clock 10 - barely.

I also shoot with my non-dominant eye shut, but at the 50 that eye wants to open so I let it happen. What I think happens there I am at capacity for what I can do, meaning I am using up all of my multi-tasking ability thinking straight back trigger squeeze, breathe, follow through, front sight, front sight, front sight, squeeze, count the shot and repeating the process 23 more times. Clamping the off eye shut just doesn't seem to fit in anymore, so I let it open but there is a down side too because now I can see in the peripheral vision that the shooter to my left is changing position, or fiddling with his gun or, or, or you name it. If you see the position change you start to question your timing, are you shooting too slow, is he shooting too fast, do I speed up, am I ok? Wear blinders so you don't see all that distraction.

 

[SW CQB 45]

I guess what I am trying to say....sometimes the blob of the head is identifiable and completely there and sometimes the blob is not square or missing mainly the right side and my brain says don't pull as the image or full blob of the head is missing.

Do you all experience this?

And thanks for the details.

MKT, my barricade shooting with just enough to steady the sights and recoil is straight back. Heavy push on the barricade does not work for me.

 

[scooter123]

IMO you should be talking to an optomotrist about this, you may have something a lot more serious going on than simple age related loss of acuity. I'm far far from an expert, however it's sounds as if you may be describing a symptom of macular degeneration or a retinal tear. In addition, loss of areas within the field of vision and also be caused by a minor stroke. So, don't take this as lightly as you seem to be, get thee to an expert and see if my concern is either groundless or needs taking care of.

As for aging eyes that are otherwise healthy, I've resigned myself to using reflex sights for my long range shooting. Of any aspect due to aging, the changes in my vision is what bothers me the most.

 

[MKT]

I guess what I am trying to say....sometimes the blob of the head is identifiable and completely there and sometimes the blob is not square or missing mainly the right side and my brain says don't pull as the image or full blob of the head is missing.

Do you all experience this?

And thanks for the details.

MKT, my barricade shooting with just enough to steady the sights and recoil is straight back. Heavy push on the barricade does not work for me.

Blurry, yes...a chunk of the head not visible, no I can't say I have experienced that one. Scooter's suggestion of seeing the eye Doc is a good one. It could be the 'scrip is off or it could be an eye problem, visiting the Doc will be the only way to know.

Glad to hear you've made headway in the barricade department. Now you need to work the new position until it is 100% natural for you to step into without reverting to your old style. Practice, practice, practice.

 

[SW CQB 45]

I was practicing yesterday....zeroing my guns and kept catching myself push the barricade and then would back off.

Reference the eyes, I go to the eye doc once a yr and got sent to an eye surgeon last go around for constant irritation and build up of crud nightly. I have to wash my eyelids to minimize crud and irritation. They checked for tears too.

This has been goin for years....also with accuracy 50 or longer shots with an iron sight rifle. I think its me.....and blinking or opening my eyes over comes it.

I may need to learn both eyes open and I always thought the sun especially to my left or right at 9 or 10am was causing this and I do really well with the sun to my back....

But yesterday the sun was too my back....however I wonder if fatigue was the issue as for the past two months....I have been juggling two jobs, regular police desk job and then teaching at the academy plus a weekly extra job in holes. This part of the year with the academy since they have a day and night academy goin on and firearms and patrol procedures is always at the end. Come on Sunday....then done till Nov.

 

[KAC]

One other thing, stay hydrated. Lack of water can cause your vision to change. I usually take a water bottle to the line an sip on it when getting ready for the next stage. Just have to be careful not to drink too much or else tb (tiny bladder) kicks in with other problems.
KAC

 

[scooter123]

Just a couple of thoughts here. One is that Doctors are NOT mind readers, many times they won't test for something unless the patient mentions it. Question, have you ever mentioned to your eye doc that you are are seeing what are symetrical shapes with some areas distorted or missing. If you haven't, make sure to mention that. Frankly, I'm a bit concerned that you are losing "chunks" of those targets and think you should have that checked out. Today it's a lot better to find out if you have a problem developing instead of waiting until nothing can be done about the damage done.

 

[SW CQB 45]

Scoot....no worries. I mentioned this to the eye surgeon who did a bunch of cks...and they found nothing. Maybe I am not describing it correctly.

I line up my front sight with the width of the head which is a haze. Sometimes the haze of the head is not square to line up with my front sight and I have to open my eyes....blink to regain the complete head.

I can leave my eyes open for one shot....then I feel I have to close my right eye to have. A better sight pic.

I am goin to zero my Nina next week and when this happens again....I will try and better describe.

 

[Aussie D]

vision

SW CQB 45,
I would like to know, is this vision problem something that happens in the 50 yd 2min 45 series, or other closer (25 yd or less) series?

A lot of top shooters in this neck of the woods have noted at 50yds, they look differently through their glasses depending upon the actual position fired. This, for some can also effect point of impact.

For me personally at 50 yds, sitting I aim spot on, prone about 3 inches high, left hand barricade, about an inch low and right hand barricade about 3 inches low to centre my groups. I havent shot a a match all year, and in a similar match (same time period, different position sequence) shot a 231/240. (sorry folks this was my 9mm STI targetmaster, not my S&W Mod 64)

It all relates to what part of the lens you actually look through your glasses at the sights, in the 4 different positions.

Note, that this is with a centre hold, as Australian targets are prohibited from having the "head" portion and therefore a neck hold isnt an option.

Cheers,

Aussie D

 

[SW CQB 45]

Yes....50 only. I know standing is always an issue with this and sitting not really sure....but prone with the gun further away sights differently but I can only recall on the last two of standing where this becomes an issue.

 

[CALREB]

I had something like that and I had to back off on my prescription for my glasses, I had it too strong ,as far as seeing the front sight,front sight was REAL clear but the head looked like it was partially gone. Especially in bright light ,like where you shoot,.Once I backed off the prescription,front sight not quite so clear but head looked like fuzzy round mass,which works if I trust my sight picture. Good luck bob

 

[SW CQB 45]

bob, my prescription for shooting is a crystal clear front sight.

I am thinking my stress of the 50, squinting, the sun and crystal clear front sight makes the head sometimes diminish to the point where the head is not all there and I have nothing square to line up my front sight with.....urghhhh!!!

if all works out....I plan to zero my 9 tomorrow.

I will see if it happens again.

thanks to all

 

[Aussie D]

Heres an idea. Put up 4 x targets at 50 yds if you can. Fire 6 rds sitting at one, 6 rounds prone at one, followed by 6 rds left and right handed at the others. repeat this 4 x times for 24 rds on each target in each position.

The pattern should now be obvious if you are not looking central through your corrective lens for each position. You will now be able to calculate how much to aim off.

Cheers,

Aussie D

 

[kshock]

I have a similar problem. Sometimes if I cant my head slightly to the left causing me to look slightly right to line up the sights, I lose my sight picture and have to start blinking to get anything back. Really screws up my shot string. My doc ran several tests and decided that I am devoloping cataracts (which I already knew) and luckily for me, in my right (dominate) eye there is a secondary cataract forming in the center of the back of the lens. Not bad enogh to fix (yet) so I just have to live with it for now. I started shooting better when I could force myself to close the right eye and shoot strictly with the left. I wish I could shoot with both eyes open, but I have tried for years and just can't adjust.

 

[SW CQB 45]

Did a practice session on Monday with sunny conditions....zeroed my nina.

Prone and right hand barricade are difficult at the 50 in the area of vision but for some reason I could not duplicate the issue.

I is barreled bodied and its difficult to bend my head up and I look thru the top part of my glasses.

For some reason....left hand barri. I can shoot and concentrate with both eyes open. Right hand 50 barri. I have to shut my right eye...I squinting....and my right eye wants to open.

Today at the practice match......completely overcast with ocassional drizzle. While I felt no real eye strain, prone is still a "baer" bending my head up and lookin thru the top of my glasses.

While I shot good groups today...I shot to the right. it was positional....as some were x or 10 and then a cluster in the 8/7 at 3pm. I could not say what position.

I do need to smooth up. I have arguements with myself when my mind says to shoot but my trigger finger for some reason is not in snyc.

 

[scooter123]

After reading a few of the more recent posts I think that I may have an inkling of what is going on with your vision.

Have you ever done any fooling around with a camera for Depth of Field effects? If you have it may make this a bit easier to understand. With a camera lens in the "normal" focal length range (50mm on a 35mm) if you want items at seperate distances to be in focus you want to focus the lens at a distance that lies approximately 1/3 of the distance from the nearest point of interest and the farthest point of interest. BTW, this is commonly referred to as the "hyperfocal" point. Then you adjust the opening in the lens so that the depth of field covers the range you want in focus.

Now, how does this apply to your issue? It's pretty simple, your glasses are corrected so the focus is perfect at the distance to the front sight on your gun. What I would suggest looking into is having lenses that are custom made to achieve perfect focus for your eyes at a distance of 15 feet. While it may not allow you to see the sights with total clarity, in full daylight conditions you should be able to see them clearly enough to shoot well with and you'll have your target in much better focus. As for why, pupils in the eye constrict in higher lighting levels and just like a camera lens with a small aperture this extends the Depth of Field. Your current correction is set so that you can see your sights clearly in low light settings and it's strong enough that you just can't achieve focus on your target in full daylight. BTW, at one point I went through this with an eye doctor and it took a bit of pursuading to get my point across, about 5 years later another eye doctor just refused to see the point of my request. Point is if your current optomotrist refuses to see the point of "hyperfocal" correction keep looking until you find one who does.

One other note, I've noticed that I'm just a bit more near sighted in my left eye than my right, if I shoot with the left eye I can actually focus on handgun sights, which I can't do with my right eye unless it's in full daylight. If something similar holds true for you, you may want to start shooting with your non dominant eye. BTW, 40 years of running cameras with my left eye has left me with the ability to use either eye at will.

 

[Aussie D]

SW CQB 45,
I'm thinking there might be other issues at play here.

The following statement is a good indication:

"I have arguements with myself when my mind says to shoot but my trigger finger for some reason is not in snyc."

There is only one way to fix this, and that is through dry firing/live firing without a time limit. I have found that when programming the sub conscious mind by letting it learn the EXACT procedures for a perfect shot release, slow time is the way to go. After a while, whats often called "muscle memory", (which is really impossible, as muscles remember nothing) kicks in, but the signals that we have practiced perfectly are now programmed sufficiently and now live in the sub conscious mind. It is sometimes called "kineasthetic feedback". Think of way back when you learnt to drive, how much thought process went into it. Im fairly sure now, you have absolutely no conscious thoughts about pressing accelerator, releasing clutch and applying the brake pedal in an emergency. Its exactly the same here. There should be no conscious thought on when the shot is released, the shot should release itself when the correct sight picture is stable in the area of correct aim.

If you have underlying positional issues, these will be identified by doing a drill like or similar to this:

"Put up 4 x targets at 50 yds if you can. Fire 6 rds sitting at one, 6 rounds prone at one, followed by 6 rds left and right handed at the others. repeat this 4 x times for 24 rds on each target in each position."

After firing 24 rds on each target, without checking any of them visually, you will have the answer as to what positions cause you grief in group size and or misplacement. You can then work on your problem areas, with positional improvements as well as calculating and applying an aim off that sees the group centre on the x ring.

I will be doing this drill tomorrow morning as it has been a while since I have shot competitively. I did shoot a 50yd series last Sunday, the first in at least 6 months and dropped 9 points, finishing with 231. A little below my normal average.

Advice offered, so keep an open mind, you may take it and run with it, or disregard completely.

Cheers,

Aussie D

 

[PPCSHOOTER]

JUST A THOUGHT, BREATHING ?? IF I FORGET TO BREATH AFTER A SHOT OR 2 MY VISION JUST GOES TO HELL IN A HURRY. TARGET BLURS FIRST THAN THE SIGHTS. JP