Lee 3 die for 32S&WLong

[john3136]

Hi all,
Been reloading 38spl for a while, but now I want to try for my new toy (a Walther GSP - sorry, not a S&W ;-)

I got the Lee 3 die set for 32S&W long, but I've been doing a bit of reading which makes me worry I don't know as much as I should...

I'm reading that the GSPs are typically a .314 barrel, but the Lee dies are more suited to .312.

Can someone who knows more than me correct me if the below is wrong...

Die 1 removes old primer and resizes case to spec (this should be ok)

Die 2 bells the case (again I read this assumes .312 and so if I want to use a .314 pill I'd need a bigger plug here to bell the case a bit more)

Die 3 seats the projectile, crimps and does a full length resize (which would swage a .314 pill back to .312)

It's that Die 3 description that concerns me the most. Read it in a few places on the net, and I'd like to find out if it's a story or not...

Thanks in advance!

 

[Ralph G. Briscoe]

I have the Lee set for .32 H and R...they work fine for .32 Long as well.
I assume your dies work like mine, in which case the 3d die only seats the bullet and crimps...doesn't resize--that's die #1. You just need to bell the case mouth (die 2) enough to accept the base of the bullet. 2/1000's of an inch will make no noticeable difference in seating the bullet, and I doubt that the bullets will be swaged down any...more likely the brass will expand to the bullet's diameter...esp if it's a jacketed bullet.

 

[Alk8944]

The Lee 3-die set is basically like any other, sizer, expander, seat/crimp die. It is the 4-die set that also includes the Carbide Factory Crimp die that sizes the loaded cartridge. This last die does not seat the bullet. Your assumption that the CFC Die will size the bullet within the case is basically correct. The CFC die is sized for "standard for caliber" bullets and, depending on your case wall thickness, tends to size any bullet that is larger.The CFC die works well with jacketed bullets, not so well with cast.

Have you actually slugged your the CFC dieGSP, or relying on published or Internet information? While it could well be .314, many European .32s tend toward smaller than US bore dimensions. Eurpean .32 ACP bores tend to be .308-.309, where US standard is .311.

If you really do need .314 bullets then forget the CFC die and just use the standard seat die that is in the 3-die set.

 

[john3136]

Thanks for the replies - just going off internet info, but it seems fairly consistent that the GSP is typically .314.

I do plan to slug the barrel before I try anything. I'm just making sure I understand what is going on (so I don't waste my time playing with .314 if one of the dies will put it back to .312)

 

[Alk8944]

Thanks for the replies - just going off internet info, but it seems fairly consistent that the GSP is typically .314.

I do plan to slug the barrel before I try anything. I'm just making sure I understand what is going on (so I don't waste my time playing with .314 if one of the dies will put it back to .312)

John,

If your GSP needs .314 bullets any normal 3 die set will work just fine. Just for simplicity that is the diameter I load in .32 S&WL, .32 H&R Magnum, and .32-20. Just don't try to use the Lee CFC die. Same goes for the Redding "Profile Crimp Die" if it is available for the .32 S&W.

 

[Steve C]

For a .32 S&W Long cartridge to be used in a semi automatic target pistol like your Walther the only load that will function in this pistol is semi wad cutters seated flush with the case mouth. The typical target wad cutter is of the hollow base type. As the skirt expands upon firing to take up the rifling the difference in bore size is unimportant and you won't need a larger diameter bullet to work well. Other bullet styles like SWC or RN are usually too long in OAL to fit in the magazine of the semi auto's and are more appropriate for revolvers for small game hunting.

 

[shovelwrench]

I just started reloading .32 long with the lee dies. They work just fine with .314 HBWC. I also crimp with the Factory Crimp Die, and while in some calibers it will resize the brass, the sizing ring does not touch the brass on my loaded rounds (no resizing of the bullet).

 

[S4B]

I have a couple of GSPs, and one of them had a .316" barrel. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out why it leaded up so bad. It now wears a custom ,308" tube.

 

[noylj]

Boy, have you given yourself a challenge.
You are going to have to slug your barrel and determine the groove diameter.
You will be loading lead wadcutter bullets ONLY, and most likely HBWC. Bullets must be seated flush to just below flush with the case mouth. You will do best with a Redding Profile Crimp die to give each case a very slight roll crimp, so the brass of the case goes up the feed ramp and no lead is exposed.
Next, it is critical NOT to swage the bullet diameter down.
Best is to take cases that you have fired in your gun and NOT size them. Next, you want to be absolutely sure that your expander opens up the case ID, over the length the bullet will be seated, to 0.001" under bullet diameter. Any less and bullet grip is reduced (though for this cartridge in this application, that is not as critical as most other cartridges or even a S&W Long shooting SWCs or LRN bullets. Any more, and you will be swaging the bullet diameter down.
The bullets must be soft enough to still obdurate (expand to fill the bore). Best wadcutters would be at least 0.001" over groove diameter, and up to 0.003" is often even better.
I find that the very small charge weights are handled best with my RCBS ChargeMaster, as the weights are so low that 0.2gn is a large variation.
Next, keep velocity DOWN. HBWCs, which is almost certainly what will shot the best, can and will separate the skirt from the main body of the bullet if velocities are much over 800fps.
The round is a real test of follow-through, and I have yet to work up a load that is as accurate as factory ammo.

 

[shovelwrench]

noylj,
If your not swaging the bullet in the case, AND your running bullets .001 over bore diameter, then why would you need the bullet to "obturate"?? Secondly, wouldn't a HBWC be redundant at that point... And good luck finding an expander that opens a case up the full length of a bullet, LET ALONE, a flush seated wadcutter....

 

[noylj]

It is easy to order a custom expander. Based on my 45+ years experience with lead bullets, custom expanders are often the first step in lead bullet accuracy and minimizing leading. I like Lee because they charge less, but Lyman is great with special inserts for the M-die.
I can only go by what my .38 Special wadcutter and .32 S&W Long wadcutter guns needed for accuracy:
For the .38 Special, the Remington HBWC has a wider skirt (at 0.360-0.361") then any other HBWC I have found and it was easily the most accurate. May not need obturation with Remingtons, but I think of ALL lead bullets as needing to obturate to seal the bore and apply pressure to keep the lube pressed between the bore and bullet.
Being 0.001" over groove diameter is the minimum dimension required in all my guns with lead bullets and 0.002-0.003" is often more accurate.
Yet, I still "feel" that there has to be enough bullet plasticity to keep the bore/bullet pressure tight enough. It isn't that the bullet is expanding to fill the bore but rather the bullet is still soft enough that the chamber pressure stills affects the bullet to press against the bore.
For the .32 S&W Long, I have not been able to get the accuracy of factory rounds yet. However, my comments are still they way that has led to improved accuracy. This is why I stated that the OP was giving himself a real challenge--there seems to be no room for any errors with the .32. It is frustrating that S&B ammunition is still a bit more accurate than my handloads...

 

[m1gunner]

noylj,
If your not swaging the bullet in the case, AND your running bullets .001 over bore diameter, then why would you need the bullet to "obturate"?? Secondly, wouldn't a HBWC be redundant at that point... And good luck finding an expander that opens a case up the full length of a bullet, LET ALONE, a flush seated wadcutter....

My Lyman 32 die set does have such expanders included in the set.

 

[john3136]

I finally got arond to loading up some cases over the weekend just using the 3 die set as is.
I made a few at 1.7 WST under Hornady .314 90gn HBWC and a few at 1.9 WST with the same projectile. Both seated flush with the mouth.

Loading went fine. Projectiles seemed to go into the case mouth very easily. May try backing the die out a bit to make the brass go for longer.

Powder was measured with the Lee micro disc set and was consistent enough for me.

Projectiles seated nicely, no real noticable bulge in the brass.

All of it went "bang" and accuracy was in the ball park of the lapua factory ammo I had been using. With the 1.7 load I had about 2 keyholes out of 15 rounds. The 1.9 were all nice and round and it felt nicer to shoot. Both cycled the walther ok. I've loaded up a few more at 1.9gn to give them a better test.

 

[310Pilot]

Just to clarify, the Lee 3-die set does not include the Carbide Factory Crimp die (the crimp die that may size the case after crimping). It does include a standard seating/crimp die, which does not size the case again. Hope this helps, and have fun!