Lee Dipper Reloading Data 38/357

[Warren Sear]

Gentlemen...

DO NOT TRUST THE VMD DATA, DIPPING CHART, ETC.

The published information is a rough guide, that may or may not be up-to-date. I've gotten individual pounds of powder that were off by 25-35%, in both directions.

Verify charges with a scale, whether you're using a dispenser or dippers, at the start of every reloading session. And make doubly-sure to do so when opening a new jar of powder.

Literally any time someone says, "I can not have an accident because my equipment will not allow it", I can assure you, they are wrong.

There is something seriously wrong if you are seeing a 25 to 35% variation in weights between different lots of the same powder. Unique (for example) has been made for over a century and has never been more than a couple percentage points off, which is well within tolerance and safety margins.

Have you verified your scale? Are you measuring the actual powder you are intending (not something else by mistake)???

 

[Rule3]

I used dippers for a LONG time with many different powders. Plus made my own.


There are many powders that will work for 38 special and mild 357. I used HP38/W231 for some time. Still do.


I or anyone can give the OP the correct dipper for XYZ powder, BUT BUT


Every lot of powder varies, so my powder in my humidity may or may not be the same as someplace else.


The Lee Chart is pretty accurate for SOME powders but is WAY off for others, I made my own chart of specific weights of powders and what dipper to use or what hole in the disc to use.



The LEE scale is not worth the plastic it is made off and I am a Lee fan boy.


Perhaps the OP can get s decent scale and have someone else read it for him??


Loading without a scale is a crapshoot to me.

 

[Rule3]

I have to add to the above post. My recommendation is to use medium slow powders and not real fast burning ones, The slower powders will fill the case better and you are less likely to get into trouble of overcharging.
So even though Bullseye is great for 38 special I would advise using HP 38, Unique are something like those.
If you get powders that I have I would be glad to give you the dipper data or as close as possible


For the 38 special I have HP 38, Unique, Auto Comp I have other for magnum loads or faster powders but I think you should not use those.


I have Trail Boss which is a fast powder but really fills the case so it's hard to blow one up!


Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading

 

[mikerjf]

Like Nevada Ed said, the .3 scoop gives you 2.8 of Bullseye, a very common middle-of-the-road loading for 38 special. However, the .3 scoop does not come with the Lee Loader 38 Special set. Who knows why!

I've made a few dippers - for a tiny one, I took a 22 Short case and drilled a small hole thru on the bottom, poked in a heavy piece of copper house wire, and then half-filled the case with solder. I checked what it was dipping on my scale, and then drilled with a bit that fit the case mouth from the top to take out some solder. Kept doing that until I had the load I wanted.

 

[Bronco89]

I use both the Lee Perfect powder measure as well as dippers. I check each with a Lee safety scale. I use a lot of Trail Boss and Universal. I've personally found that for 38 spcl / 158gr LSWC, a dipper works out well with TB. Check the dip against a scale. I use a dipper not listed in the book, but one that drops inside their listed powder charge safely.

For 44 mag, (light loads) I like the dipper with Universal. That being said. If I am loading Universal in 38, I like the Lee Perfect Powder measure.

I love dippers, bit for handgun loads, they are extremely limiting, and will give you functional loads following Lee's instructions, but not often the best loads. The above loads I mentioned with dippers, I like pretty well.

 

[mikld]

The best way to use dippers is in conjunction with a scale. I started with a Lee Loader, using a dipper for Bullseye and made a bunch of safe loads, but I'm sure they varied quite bit (I even had a squib in 1970). Using a scale I perfected my dipping method and I found I could vary the dipped charge by nearly a full grain (push the dipper backwards, push forwards, strike with a straight edge, wiggle the dipper to even charge, push through mouth first, mouth first twice, all gave different charges). After much practice, and when I was on a roll, I could hold +/- .1 grain of W231. I kept my own "dipping log" of which dipper consistently gave which charge of which powder.

I have used a lot Unique and in the last 8-10 years Universal for both 38 Special and 357 Magnum. A lot of reloaders will claim Unique burns "dirty" and to some extent yes it will at lighter, lower pressure charges as most pistol powders.


FWIW; if you want to continue reloading I would highly suggest a minimum of one better manual than the Lee. Lyman 50th is an excellent choice. If you shoot cast bullets, a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is often considered the "Lead Bullet Bible". If you choose jacketed bullets, get a manual published by the bullet manufacturer (Hornady bullets, Hornady manual. Speer bullets, Speer manual,etc.).

Go slow. Double check everything. Most important, have fun...

 

[Wise_A]

There is something seriously wrong if you are seeing a 25 to 35% variation in weights between different lots of the same powder. Unique (for example) has been made for over a century and has never been more than a couple percentage points off, which is well within tolerance and safety margins.

Have you verified your scale? Are you measuring the actual powder you are intending (not something else by mistake)???

Variance from listed VMD. Hell, I have a pound of Accurate #2 that's nearly half the density listed on a Lee VMD chart I have. In other words, blindly dropping .Xcc's of powder would have resulted in a half-charge.

And yes, I double-checked

Typical lot-to-lot variation isn't supposed to be greater than 18%, both for burn rate and density, but it's not the lot-to-lot variation you care about. It's the difference between the powder you're actually dealing with, and the chart you're working from.

 

[Gene L]

"The LEE scale is not worth the plastic it is made off and I am a Lee fan boy."

I agree with that, and I'm a Lee fan boy too. Unless they've changed it, it's kinda dangerous, the one I had was. Complicated, and I feel Lee adapted it from some other source not related to powder.

I had a Lee Perfect Measure, it leaked powder.

I've never dipped powder, but have a bunch of dippers I got with die sets.

 

[mikld]

"The LEE scale is not worth the plastic it is made off and I am a Lee fan boy."

I agree with that, and I'm a Lee fan boy too. Unless they've changed it, it's kinda dangerous, the one I had was. Complicated, and I feel Lee adapted it from some other source not related to powder.

I had a Lee Perfect Measure, it leaked powder.

I've never dipped powder, but have a bunch of dippers I got with die sets.

I gotta reply to these posts. Actually the Lee Safety Scale is safer than most other beam scales. The Lee has a locking function where once the weight is adjusted, and locked, the weight adjustment will not change until the function is disabled. Some folks cannot/will not learn how to read a vernier scale. "Complicated"? No, it's not digital, but easily read, accurate, and lockable. The "plastic" referred to isn't the plastic Japanese toys were made of in the '50s, but a modern synthetic material, and for this application, better than most beam materials (anybody remember all the condemnation of Mr. Ruger's modern use of modern materials; injection casting? Or all the complaints about GM's use of fiberglass auto bodies?). You can drop a Lee scale from 6' onto a hard surface and still be able to weigh .1 grain, repeatedly.

I'm a lifelong machinist/mechanic and found most of the complaints I see about Lee tools and equipment are from ignorance. Not knowing how to use a tool as it's designed, and unable to learn tried and true practices. Instructions need to be read and understood. Because one is a reloader and "uses" reloading tools does not mean they are informed tool users. I have a multi colored bench, tools and equipment from most manufacturers, (current and defunct), and have made a living with tools for at least 50 years. I just don't care for any one specific tool manufacturer getting a bad rap because the user is unable to make the tool perform as it is designed...

 

[Rule3]

I gotta reply to these posts. Actually the Lee Safety Scale is safer than most other beam scales. The Lee has a locking function where once the weight is adjusted, and locked, the weight adjustment will not change until the function is disabled. Some folks cannot/will not learn how to read a vernier scale. "Complicated"? No, it's not digital, but easily read, accurate, and lockable. The "plastic" referred to isn't the plastic Japanese toys were made of in the '50s, but a modern synthetic material, and for this application, better than most beam materials (anybody remember all the condemnation of Mr. Ruger's modern use of modern materials; injection casting? Or all the complaints about GM's use of fiberglass auto bodies?). You can drop a Lee scale from 6' onto a hard surface and still be able to weigh .1 grain, repeatedly.

I'm a lifelong machinist/mechanic and found most of the complaints I see about Lee tools and equipment are from ignorance. Not knowing how to use a tool as it's designed, and unable to learn tried and true practices. Instructions need to be read and understood. Because one is a reloader and "uses" reloading tools does not mean they are informed tool users. I have a multi colored bench, tools and equipment from most manufacturers, (current and defunct), and have made a living with tools for at least 50 years. I just don't care for any one specific tool manufacturer getting a bad rap because the user is unable to make the tool perform as it is designed...

Say what you will, the Lee scale may indeed be accurate but it is a PITA to use and not worth the $30 it costs. I have all LEE equipment for years. Has nothing to do with the "user"
You like it fine, use it.


I have a Dillon!

 

[Gene L]

Accurate? Yes, I suppose so. I'm not a machinist (like most people in the world) so I'm forced to use other scales, which are a lot less complicated, like a Lyman balance beam. If you Google Lee powder scales, you'll see a lot of negative comments. Lots of which are quite vehement.

A common complaint is it's nearly impossible to zero. I can't remember what one I used,or if I found it difficult to zero, but I didn't like it. IIRC, it required a chart to interpret it. Is it possible the scale (or the one I had) measured in cc, and had to be converted to grains.

Looks like the newer ones are a lot simpler.

 

[s1mp13m4n]

Hello again folks. Not sure how we got from my question to Lee bashing and then to the Lee scale LOL but anywho. The Lee scale is what I have. Here is a video on how to zero it and use it. The scale is very sensitive. I had a fan running and it would not zero. Turned the fan off and it did zero. Is it a little picky to set up? Yes, a little bit. Is it accurate? Yep, I weighed a post it note. Then wrote my name in pencil on the post it note. The scale noticed.

YouTube

 

[Wise_A]

I'm a lifelong machinist/mechanic and found most of the complaints I see about Lee tools and equipment are from ignorance.

My personal favorite is, "Durrhurrdurr! They used a cheap plastic nut in mah Lee Turret! Cheap company grumble-grumble whiffle-whaffle...I replaced it with a metal one for a nickel!"

Hey genius--ever hear of this thing called a "sacrificial part"? May as well go ahead and order a new turret indexing rod to go with your 5-cent 'improvement'. And maybe order a couple of those nylon sacrificial nuts, they're like a quarter each.

 

[cowboy4evr]

There's a huge difference between " faulty manufacturing " and " user error " . I have used a LEE powder scale for yrs so I can honestly say that I put the complaints about it on " user error " . Regards, Paul

 

[Warren Sear]

^^^LOL!!! I think most of it is nothing more than an inability to follow the instructions.

 

[mikld]

Accurate? Yes, I suppose so. I'm not a machinist (like most people in the world) so I'm forced to use other scales, which are a lot less complicated, like a Lyman balance beam. If you Google Lee powder scales, you'll see a lot of negative comments. Lots of which are quite vehement.

A common complaint is it's nearly impossible to zero. I can't remember what one I used,or if I found it difficult to zero, but I didn't like it. IIRC, it required a chart to interpret it. Is it possible the scale (or the one I had) measured in cc, and had to be converted to grains.

Looks like the newer ones are a lot simpler.

Unfortunately there are people in this world that don't know how to properly use a hammer and it doesn't take a 6 year apprenticeship and 30 years of experience to use one and it's the same with any tools, including reloading tools (ever see a youtube video where Bubba is beating on an engine part or Lee Loader with a claw hammer?). In real life a vernier scale is easy to read, all ya gotta do is line up a couple marks on a slide, but there are many that look at one and they nearly faint. No need for a Phd in physics to read or learn to read one. Negative comments? I could whine/complain about dental surgery, but because I know nothing about it, my "complaints" are worthless, like a lot of "internet wisdom/complaints". Use of Lee Scales is simple and straight forward; move a steel ball and adjust a slide, positive adjustment that won't change if the pan is removed too quickly or the bench is bumped. I've never had a problem with the brass "zeroing" nut/screw on the Lee scales I'v tried. I don't think there has been a change in design, at least the ones I own, maybe 30 years old, and it stays usable and accurate.

Again I'm not selling Lee, badmouthing user's failures, just don't care for general, unnecessary product bashing. New reloaders often look in to reloading forums and can get a skewed, inaccurate "review" of some good, entry level tools, and this I object to. Many reloading tools users seem to get emotionally wrapped up in their choice of tools and vigorously defend their choice and try to destroy the products they do not use...

 

[HKSmith]

If your problem is that you can't find AA #5 powder, Midway, Graf's, and Powder Valley all have it in stock and ready to ship in both 1 lb and 8 lb containers. Powder Valley even has a "half-off Hazmat" deal going. If you can use it, the 8 pounder saves a lot of money and amortizes the Hazmat fee over a lot of powder. At 4.7 grains per dip, that would give you about 11,914 dips.

 

[Rule3]

Unfortunately there are people in this world that don't know how to properly use a hammer and it doesn't take a 6 year apprenticeship and 30 years of experience to use one and it's the same with any tools, including reloading tools (ever see a youtube video where Bubba is beating on an engine part or Lee Loader with a claw hammer?). In real life a vernier scale is easy to read, all ya gotta do is line up a couple marks on a slide, but there are many that look at one and they nearly faint. No need for a Phd in physics to read or learn to read one. Negative comments? I could whine/complain about dental surgery, but because I know nothing about it, my "complaints" are worthless, like a lot of "internet wisdom/complaints". Use of Lee Scales is simple and straight forward; move a steel ball and adjust a slide, positive adjustment that won't change if the pan is removed too quickly or the bench is bumped. I've never had a problem with the brass "zeroing" nut/screw on the Lee scales I'v tried. I don't think there has been a change in design, at least the ones I own, maybe 30 years old, and it stays usable and accurate.

Again I'm not selling Lee, badmouthing user's failures, just don't care for general, unnecessary product bashing. New reloaders often look in to reloading forums and can get a skewed, inaccurate "review" of some good, entry level tools, and this I object to. Many reloading tools users seem to get emotionally wrapped up in their choice of tools and vigorously defend their choice and try to destroy the products they do not use...

Then please do tell us why there is a need to have a Dillon Love-fest every day. week or month.??

How about Ford or Chevy?

Out of all the scales available the Lee scale is at the bottom regardless. and this is from a long time Lee product user that has a degree in Brain Surgery for Rocket scientists!

I used the Lee scale and don't like it, is that OK?

How about the Lee FCD? I use them and like them, how much bashing has there been on those?
To each their own. OK?
If the OP is visually impaired then the Lee scale is a poor choice.

 

[nedlate]

If your problem is that you can't find AA #5 powder, Midway, Graf's, and Powder Valley all have it in stock and ready to ship in both 1 lb and 8 lb containers. Powder Valley even has a "half-off Hazmat" deal going. If you can use it, the 8 pounder saves a lot of money and amortizes the Hazmat fee over a lot of powder. At 4.7 grains per dip, that would give you about 11,914 dips.

And I would order it in an 8 pound container and solve the problem for a long time!
Ed

 

[mikld]

Then please do tell us why there is a need to have a Dillon Love-fest every day. week or month.??

How about Ford or Chevy?

Out of all the scales available the Lee scale is at the bottom regardless. and this is from a long time Lee product user that has a degree in Brain Surgery for Rocket scientists!

I used the Lee scale and don't like it, is that OK?

How about the Lee FCD? I use them and like them, how much bashing has there been on those?
To each their own. OK?
If the OP is visually impaired then the Lee scale is a poor choice.

And if the OP is "visually impaired" to the extent of not being able to see a vernier scale, he should be using factory ammo, not reloading, as there are many other potential problems that can/should be seen.

No there is no need for a "love fest" for any product. I don't own any Dillon products (and I can't see how a "Dillon Love Fest" as anything to do with this thread) and posting about how much one likes their choice has nothing to do with the bashing that goes on for other products. Yes the Lee scale is an "entry level" scale. Meaning it is less expensive, but it is no less accurate, harder to use or less safe than any scale. Because it is less expensive, the "experts" go to great lengths to badmouth the product ("it ain't as expensive so it can't be any good" kinda BS). I guess one can argue about the use of modern materials and modern manufacturing methods, but that too is open to much criticism; some are accused of "old school", "dinosaur reloader", "Model T vs Ford explorer" kind of accusations.

If you read my posts you will see my intention is to give a product an even shake. Most of the Lee Bashing isn't "I don't like it" as much as it is a derogatory rant.

I have had two Lee scales and yes they may be a bit slower to "settle" than some $$$$ magnetic dampened scales, but it is certainly no less accurate, nor any less safe than any reloading scale on the market. I have 3 scales I use regularly, an RCBS 505, a Lyman/Ohaus D5 and my Lee SS. The Lee is no less accurate than either of the other two. As in most tool misuse, the problem isn't with the tool itself, but the nut behind the handle.

My main complaint is many new reloaders look in on reloading forums to get an idea of the equipment and Lee Bashing just does the new guy a major disservice. Just look at how new reloaders are lead to believe a tumbler with "reloading media" and all the necessary tools to get pristine shiny brass is absolutely necessary to get decent, safe reloads.

Personally I don't care what tools equipment anyone uses, but I don't care for the "tool snobs" tying to destroy a perfectly good product which often is unnecessary and gives the less informed a skewed/biased view.

No need to reply as I'm done. There's no intelligent conversation possible with a Lee Hater. Reminds me of the old saw; "Arguing with a an old reloader is much like wrestling with a pig..."