LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S RIFLE

[DWalt]

" I await your display of anything that can be linked directly to this assassination that didn't come from the Texas Book Depository or from our slain President's body."

Does anyone know for sure that all evidence has been released? We know only what we know, and not what we don't know. On one of the more recent TV specials, there was an interesting comment, namely that had the JFK autopsy had been performed by capable and experienced forensic pathologists rather than by a couple of inexperienced amateurs, there would probably have never been such an explosion of conspiracy theories. But that's the way the government officials wanted it done.

 

[Absalom]

......On one of the more recent TV specials, there was an interesting comment, namely that had the JFK autopsy had been performed by capable and experienced forensic pathologists rather than by a couple of inexperienced amateurs, there would probably have never been such an explosion of conspiracy theories. But that's the way the government officials wanted it done.

But from that program it also appeared that this was simply the result of bureaucratic procedure and routine SOP, not some devious intent. At the time, quite understandably, the last thing government officials were thinking about was that the traumatic events they were just experiencing MIGHT be joining Sasquatch, UFO's, the Bermuda Triangle (and finally, sadly, even 9/11,) as the bailiwick of every crank and kook with an overactive imagination for the next half-century, with no end in sight.

That's the case with pretty much all the "documented" inconsistencies that the conspiracy theorists build their case on. If they don't just make up stuff (like a lot of the rubbish about switched bodies, switched coffins, switched rifles etc.), they take things that have perfectly innocent explanations in the context of this very unusual day (like the above-mentioned police photographer not taking his routine six snapshots) and attach the most sinister alternative explanation they can come up with.

 

[2152hq]

I saw the issue raised about the third bullet coming from a S/Service agent A/Discharge of an AR15 in a following security veh.

The third shot, the head shot was a messy highly fragmented bullet (forgot how many tiny bullet jacket and core fragments the autopsy report & photos mention and show.
Not the FMJ Carcano round is the theory, but a HP round from the AR15
There are photos from the motorcade showing the S/S agent with the rifle,,his statements which clash slightly with protocol for carry and deployment of the rifle in a situation.
Their programs opinion was that the shot hit JFK at a lower angle than the Report stated,.near street level from the rear.
I;m not into conspiracys, but that one got my attention.

The AR15 was pretty much brand new on the scene and the S/S was new to it. The story was well presented and left me wondering.
IIRC, this possibility was written up and presented in an article some time maybe in the 80's ago in a (Baltimore?) newspaper,,but never got much interest.

As far as the Carcano goes,,they can be smooth working rifles when loaded with the needed 5rd packet clip. The safety is a bear to operate but I doubt that came into play in the incident. The cartridge is a near mirror of the 6.5 Mannlicher Schoenauer,,3mm shorter OAL. 160gr bullet is the standard loading.

 

[Steve912]

I watched that program with the Australian ("an expert is someone from out of town") PI once, and had it on again later, while I was doing something. He made some glaring mistatements as part of his proposals--which I totally forget, now. Weak, I know ...but they were mistatements that would only pass with 'non-gun people'.

One problem with his "SSA with an AR" version is that it requires a boatload of additional people to maintain absolute silence. Somebody would have blabbed by now.

 

[Absalom]

I watched that program with the Australian ("an expert is someone from out of town") PI once, and had it on again later, while I was doing something. He made some glaring mistatements as part of his proposals--which I totally forget, now. Weak, I know ...but they were mistatements that would only pass with 'non-gun people'.

One problem with his "SSA with an AR" version is that it requires a boatload of additional people to maintain absolute silence. Somebody would have blabbed by now.

The theory actually goes back to a book called "Mortal Error" back in the 1990s. It was apparently brought back to life by the Australian guy a few years ago. Still as bizarre as before.

The most glaring issue remains that, besides all the others "in the know" keeping silent, a crowd of people lining the street would have had to fail to notice a .223 going off a few feet in front of them. Yeah, right. That ends that theory right there.

It's like the elaborate theories about a missile instead of a plane hitting the Pentagon on 9/11, and the supposed revelations from the picture material and the impact scene. The fact that hundreds of people simply SAW the plane somehow is neglected.

 

[amazingflapjack]

Convince yourself..

Show us ONE PIECE of hard evidence that LHO didn't act alone. I await your display of anything that can be linked directly to this assassination that didn't come from the Texas Book Depository or from our slain President's body.
Jim

Look up A&E investigative reports with Bill Curtis from several years ago- it delves into a lot of un-submitted evidence. You seem to feel that all of the facts are known. If you are at least a little open minded, and view this 3 part series coming away with the that same impression, then at least you will know what you REALLY believe.

 

[DWalt]

"But from that program it also appeared that this was simply the result of bureaucratic procedure and routine SOP, not some devious intent."

At that time, the murder of a President was not a Federal crime, and rightfully the State of Texas should have taken the lead in performing the autopsy and investigating the murder, as it occurred within its jurisdiction. In fact, there was nearly a fight at Parkland Hospital between the Feds and the Dallas Police over that point. At one time I personally knew one of the FBI special agents (now deceased) from the Dallas office who was there and who told me the whole story. Apparently the Dallas Police gave way. Second, regarding the autopsy, the Feds could certainly have brought in immediately as many highly capable forensic pathologists from either inside or outside the Federal system as were needed, but instead chose to draft a couple of military doctors with no such experience. So why didn't it?

 

[Warren Sear]

^^^ Because all the other doctors were doing autopsies in Area 51.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Won't most of our questions about shooters, numbers, positions, etc. be answered someday soon? I believe the Zapruder film contains all the bullets fired that sad day, and their trajectories. Once technology advances enough to make visible those projectiles, that part of the mystery will be solved!! I don't know if technology will ever show what is in a man's heart....

Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but if modern technology can prove what is in that film it's going to prove that LHO fired three times and nobody else did.

This was borne out in the excelent 3 part series on A&E-"Investigative Reports" with Bill Curtis-Once I watched this documentary, my suspicions were confirmed, especially when they interviewed the guy who was a young sailor at the time, that was standing in front of the grassy knoll when the shots went off-they used updated photo eq to show the images behind him-very compelling.

Oh, great, A&E - what suspicions did they confirm? You have to realize that it is in A&E's best interest to reinforce a conspiracy theory or a second shooter theory - they can make another money making show that way.

I know an expert at A&E - I'll see what he tells me. And he LOVED the Kennedys.

 

[Absalom]

.....Second, regarding the autopsy, the Feds could certainly have brought in immediately as many highly capable forensic pathologists from either inside or outside the Federal system as were needed, but instead chose to draft a couple of military doctors with no such experience. So why didn't it?

Once again, it's how you ask the question. In hindsight, it would have been a smart thing to do.

But from the viewpoint of the day, the more logical question would be: why should they have? The president had obviously been killed by gunshots in front of lots of witnesses, the suspect was in custody together with the murder weapon, and an autopsy certainly wouldn't be expected to do anything but confirm the obvious. JFK was a former Navy officer, so off to Bethesda he goes, especially since that was reportedly Jackie's wish. Check.

It's the same with the (illegal) removal of JFK's body from Dallas before the autopsy had been performed, and the confrontation between the Secret Service and the local authorities. It looks terribly suspicious if you want it to, but all I see is a bunch of shell-shocked aides and agents who just had a president killed on their watch and who want to get everybody the heck out of there as fast as possible, never mind the legalities. And since Jackie refused to go without JFK's body, that was that. That's about the most normal reaction I can imagine.

 

[2152hq]

I watched that program with the Australian ("an expert is someone from out of town") PI once, and had it on again later, while I was doing something. He made some glaring mistatements as part of his proposals--which I totally forget, now. Weak, I know ...but they were mistatements that would only pass with 'non-gun people'.

One problem with his "SSA with an AR" version is that it requires a boatload of additional people to maintain absolute silence. Somebody would have blabbed by now.

There was testimony to the Warren Commission from S/S that there was one AR rifle in the S/S possession in the Kennedy protection group in the motorcade. They gave the Agents name and there is a picture of him shortly after the assassination with him,,rifle in hand partially standing up in one of the S/S followup vehs.
There's a handwritten statement from that agent as to his actions right after the shooting including his handling of the rifle (taking it from a case, charging it, ect). That statement conflicts with the statement he gave to the Commission.
A unkn # bystanders written and verbal statements as to seeing what they believed to be a plain clothes 'Officer' w/what was variably described as a 'machinegun' or a 'rifle of some type', partially standing in an open car behind the Kennedy veh immediately following the incident..
There are statements from other S/S agents that the Agent in the security detail that had the AR assigned to him had the rifle with him at Parklands Hosp after the incident also.
It wasn't un-noticed nor undocumented. Ignored perhaps.

I just found the whole thing interesting when the question of why the Carcano FMJ bullet did such explosive damage and (bullet) fragmentation to Kennedys skull & brain was never answered. Never really asked...
Look at the autopsy pics, the entire back of his head and his brain is gone. No exit wound.
But the preceding shot,,the 'magic or pristine bullet' as it has become known as, was explained at length. How the bullets construction intended it to penetrate it's target and not expand or fragment.
Why not the same or nearly same result for both shots/hits.
Enter the AR theory and you can see why some people wonder .

No it'll never really be explained/solved. Too many years have passed and much information long since gone.

 

[italiansport]

Look up A&E investigative reports with Bill Curtis from several years ago- it delves into a lot of un-submitted evidence. You seem to feel that all of the facts are known. If you are at least a little open minded, and view this 3 part series coming away with the that same impression, then at least you will know what you REALLY believe.

If there was actual concealed HARD EVIDENCE the LHO didn't act alone do you think this wouldn't have leaked out by now? How many people who were involved in this investigation would have had to be silenced in some way to keep it concealed? I've had an open mind and have read countless accounts of the assassination they either refute the accepted conclusions or delve into some other explanation but NONE with any real evidence.
I stand by my original statement. Conspiracy theories regarding this unfortunate event are about $$$ as much as anything else. It still a free Country so you are entitled to believe otherwise if you care to.
Jim

 

[Ron M.]

To this day, experts and historians are still arguing over who exactly was behind the assassination of Lincoln. Many conspiracy theories linger, including one that Stanton, the War Secretary at that time, conspired with Booth and others (including the four "co-conspirators" that were quickly convicted and hung at the direction of a military tribunal) due to Stanton's view that Lincoln would have let the southern states rejoin the republic with little punishment. Of those four, Mary Surratt was likely the least involved, but was convicted on circumstantial evidence, mostly because Booth used to meet with Powell and other suspects at her boarding house. There's probably some group of folks out there still arguing as to whether or not Cain really killed Abel, or it was an accident...

 

[Wyatt Burp]

Conspiriacy theorists almost always convienently blame those who they already hate or are accusing of other things already. Sometime before 2008, for the fun of it I Googled "Bush JFK Assassination" to see if someone would blame Bush for it. Sure enough, there's lots of stuff. Like this picture supposedly putting Bush at the Texas Book Supository. That looks like him! He must be involved!! There might even be those who say they saw a young Jeb and W riding double on a bike from the grassy knowl with a smoking gun slung over Jeb's shoulder (I'll check).



If I looked up Bigfoot or Jon Benet Ramsey there will probably be stuff saying they were involved somehow. And the biggest crime about all this was that finely made total piece of crapfiction movie JFK. It tainted young people forever in favor of a conspiracy. That D.A. was nuts, but Costner made him a hero. And the guy ruined lives with his accusations that Oliver Stone did again after their deaths with this stupid movie.

 

[DWalt]

I WAS in downtown Dallas that day (but in the east end), and didn't even know that JFK was in town until after the assassination. The only thing I can say with certainty about it is that I didn't have anything to do with it.

 

[Warren Sear]

Conspiriacy theorists almost always convienently blame those who they already hate or are accusing of other things already. Sometime before 2008, for the fun of it I Googled "Bush JFK Assassination" to see if someone would blame Bush for it. Sure enough, there's lots of stuff. Like this picture supposedly putting Bush at the Texas Book Supository. That looks like him! He must be involved!! There might even be those who say they saw a young Jeb and W riding double on a bike from the grassy knowl with a smoking gun slung over Jeb's shoulder (I'll check).

If I looked up Bigfoot or Jon Benet Ramsey there will probably be stuff saying they were involved somehow. And the biggest crime about all this was that finely made total piece of crapfiction movie JFK. It tainted young people forever in favor of a conspiracy. That D.A. was nuts, but Costner made him a hero. And the guy ruined lives with his accusations that Oliver Stone did again after their deaths with this stupid movie.

My "sources" have recently revealed to me that Ronald Reagan might have had his fingers in the cookie jar too...

Bigfoot, you say... Hmmmmmmmm...... .... Where there's smoke, there's fire, as they say.....

 

[Warren Sear]

I WAS in downtown Dallas that day (but in the east end), and didn't even know that JFK was in town until after the assassination. The only thing I can say with certainty about it is that I didn't have anything to do with it.

Or so you say....

 

[Absalom]

Anybody read "11/22/63" by Stephen King, by the way? I lost interest in his horror stories a long time ago, and I usually find time travel stories contrived, but I've read that book twice, it's so well-written. The TV mini-series based on it was bad; I stopped watching after three episodes or so.

 

[BUFF]

I read that, in fact, it's sitting right here next to my computer waiting for me to return it to the good friend who loaned it to me. I'm not a big King fan generally, but this was a good read.

 

[hoosierone]

Could never understand why Jack Ruby shot Oswald. Saw it on tv when it happened.