LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S RIFLE

[LVSteve]

The biggest valid complaint about them is a single locking lug.

Do what now? My Carcanos (Carcani?) have two locking lugs and the base of the bolt acts as a third safety lug. Google "Carcano bolt" and the pictures all show two lugs.

 

[model70hunter]

Interesting history of the Carcano. Carcano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In reading this one finds the Italian ammo was not consistently loaded causing group variations, this happen in the same lot.

With consistent ammunition it performs similarly to the 6.5 Mannlicher-Schoenour cartridge which is excellent per some writers and close to the 6.5 Swede which is awesome from my personal use.

Ammo link. 6.5x52mm Carcano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[mrchuck]

Being from Dallas, I read up on everything I found when I came back from patrol and tunnel cleaning.
Yes you can tell where I was doing our Govt's business.
The Rifle in the hands of a trained Marine is a killing machine, period.
This is what Oswald was, a trained killing machine.
If he was not killed 3 days later by Jack Ruby, who knows what he could of caused later, even incarcerated.

 

[amazingflapjack]

I will agree that "maybe" LHO might have been able to make those three shots, but I find it extremely difficult to calculate how he was fast enough to make them that quickly from 3 different locations, within the allotted time. Even "Roadrunner" would be hard pressed to accomplish that feet.

 

[Warren Sear]

The nutty, groundless conspiracy theories will probably never end.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Having sat in Oswald's sniper nest (before it was roped off in the museum) and looking out where JFK was hit, it was no "miracle shot". I suspect that the majority of the people on this forum could have accomplished it with any decent rifle if they had a mind to.

I had previously bought that same rifle, without the scope,
for my wife a deer rifle. I know it is fast and accurate enough
to do what Oswald did. There didn't have to be more than
one shooter.

Whatever you do, DO NOT GET INTO AN ARGUMENT with a conspiracy theorist!!!! They will never, never, not ever admit that JFK was killed by a 20 dollar rifle fired by a lone assassin from a 6th floor window.

I've been there, too - I agree, the majority of people on this Forum, if they shoot rifles, could have done it easily.

It's not worth arguing with people who refuse to believe it. Firearms experts included.

 

[DWalt]

For those who may not be aware of it, the Russian Federov Avtomat rifle from the WWI period is considered by most experts to have been the very first weapon worthy of the name "Assault Rifle". It was chambered in the 6.5mm Japanese (6.5x50) cartridge, similar to the Italian 6.5 Carcano (6.5x52). If the Carcano rifle had any weaknesses, it was not the caliber.

 

[gregintenn]

For those who may not be aware of it, the Russian Federov Avtomat rifle from the WWI period is considered by most experts to have been the very first weapon worthy of the name "Assault Rifle". It was chambered in the 6.5mm Japanese (6.5x50) cartridge, similar to the Italian 6.5 Carcano (6.5x52). If the Carcano rifle had any weaknesses, it was not the caliber.

I agree, with the caveat that it isn't the easiest nor least inexpensive round to find.

 

[Auto Mag]

My only question is... 108 rounds...?? What's up with that?

People always ask me, "Where were you when Kennedy was shot"? I don't know... but I didn't do it!

 

[DWalt]

"In reading this one finds the Italian ammo was not consistently loaded causing group variations, this happen in the same lot."

Another interesting tidbit - it was never determined where LHO got the 6.5 ammo. It didn't come with the rifle, and it was American made (by Western) as part of a CIA order from the late 1940s. It was not Italian. I have a very long story about that, but I won't go into it, as it doesn't end by saying where Oswald got it.

 

[italiansport]

The nutty, groundless conspiracy theories will probably never end.

And why should they ? Millions of dollars have been made over the years writing conspiracy theory books and even when it was pretty definitively shown that the Warren Commission was essentially correct and Oswald was the lone shooter these people just go on and on. John Connally the Texas Governor who was is the car with Kennedy and who was also a lifelong hunter got it correct when he stated that 3 shots were fired.
It's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!
Jim

 

[10xatten]

I don't know anything about Carcanos, but I know this; I was in high school in 1963, and in 1969 while attending college, I met a young man who was intelligent, honest, and studying to become commercial photographer. In November of 1963 he had been working for the Dalas PD. It was his job to develop and print the black and white crime scene photographs, the Presidential assassination included. He told me that there were ALWAYS 6 photographs of every murder victim. They always followed the same pattern: top of head, left side, toward feet, right side, front, and back. Not this time. Although my friend had the entire roll of negatives, the police photographer did not shoot images of the top of Kennedy's head or of his left side. Perhaps he was coached?

Draw whatever conclusion you may.
Richard

 

[amazingflapjack]

Carcano quality...

They are just a clunky, cheaply made rifle. I have one, and also a 6.5 Arisaka. The Arisaka is a far superior arm to the Carcano.
Even a Mosin Nagant seems to be of better quality.

The Italian troops that had that version had a saying in their language that loosely translated that if you were hit by someone shooting a Carcano-it was predestined for you to die!

 

[amazingflapjack]

autopsy...

I don't know anything about Carcanos, but I know this; I was in high school in 1963, and in 1969 while attending college, I met a young man who was intelligent, honest, and studying to become commercial photographer. In November of 1963 he had been working for the Dalas PD. It was his job to develop and print the black and white crime scene photographs, the Presidential assassination included. He told me that there were ALWAYS 6 photographs of every murder victim. They always followed the same pattern: top of head, left side, toward feet, right side, front, and back. Not this time. Although my friend had the entire roll of negatives, the police photographer did not shoot images of the top of Kennedy's head or of his left side. Perhaps he was coached?

Draw whatever conclusion you may.
Richard

This was borne out in the excelent 3 part series on A&E-"Investigative Reports" with Bill Curtis-Once I watched this documentary, my suspicions were confirmed, especially when they interviewed the guy who was a young sailor at the time, that was standing in front of the grassy knoll when the shots went off-they used updated photo eq to show the images behind him-very compelling.

 

[Ptarmigan]

In referencing relative quality of the Italian Carcano, I notice the iconic Marlin 30-30 was almost four times as much. That Klein's store must have picked up a bundle of these excess soldier guns and just wanted to move them.

 

[Absalom]

I don't know anything about Carcanos, but I know this; I was in high school in 1963, and in 1969 while attending college, I met a young man who was intelligent, honest, and studying to become commercial photographer. In November of 1963 he had been working for the Dalas PD. It was his job to develop and print the black and white crime scene photographs, the Presidential assassination included. He told me that there were ALWAYS 6 photographs of every murder victim. They always followed the same pattern: top of head, left side, toward feet, right side, front, and back. Not this time. Although my friend had the entire roll of negatives, the police photographer did not shoot images of the top of Kennedy's head or of his left side. Perhaps he was coached?

Draw whatever conclusion you may.
Richard

Please don't feel picked on, but this is just a classic example how most conspiracy theorists pull their theories together. Some facts, delivered with a suitably foreboding tone, which upon short reflection contain nothing that contributes anything. I mean, here is the president's head blowing apart in full color and good focus right in front of you on the Zapruder film, and we're supposed to draw conclusions from 6 photographs that some local yokel supposedly didn't take? As I said, nothing personal, but this just shows the silliness of most "alternative" evidence.

 

[italiansport]

Ok Guys:
50 + years and NOT one shred of hard evidence to support all these conspiracy theories!! Believe what you want but I still think it boils down to $$$$ period. Please feel free to prove me wrong!
Jim

 

[crazyphil]

Lots of opinions about the Carcano. It's been over 50 years, so memory
is vague, but we shot ours quite a lot. All of my recollections are positive.
It was a slick little rifle. Wife is a little girl. 5'3" 120# and she had no
problem with recoil. My rifle was a model 70 Winchester with a Weaver
K4. The Carcano wasn't quite that nice.

 

[NewSport]

Zapruder

Won't most of our questions about shooters, numbers, positions, etc. be answered someday soon? I believe the Zapruder film contains all the bullets fired that sad day, and their trajectories. Once technology advances enough to make visible those projectiles, that part of the mystery will be solved!! I don't know if technology will ever show what is in a man's heart....

 

[Wyatt Burp]

"In the late 1950s, US Marines were categorised at three levels of shooting ability, according to the scores they achieved at a standardised test of their accuracy:

Expert: a score of 220 to 250.
Sharpshooter: 210 to 219.
Marksman: 190 to 209.
According to his Marine score card (Commission Exhibit 239), Oswald was tested twice:

In December 1956, after "a very intensive 3 weeks' training period" (Warren Commission Hearings, vol.11, p.302), Oswald scored 212: two marks above the minimum for a 'sharpshooter'.
In May 1959, he scored 191: one mark above the minimum for a 'marksman'."

My input: OK. Oswald was no Carlos Hathcock, but at that range with that rifle, what's more likely? That Oswald made these shots including missing the first one, or that the Soviets, Mafia, CIA, Tooth Fairy, or whoever used this erratic twerp somehow? I go along with this often stated thought. People cannot except that JFK could be killed by such a worthless nothing of a man. It must be something bigger to justify the massive loss in our minds. We must balance it out for it to make sense. It's just not fair that such a pathetic little loser couild do this. But he did.

 

[Old TexMex]

Ever wonder who invented the term "conspiracy theory"?
So much time spent on the "how" of the assassination, so little on the "why".

Anyone that starts down that road is generally referred to as a "conspiracy theorist".

Does anyone really believe the Jack Ruby was such a fervant patriot that he was willing to kill Oswald? Really?
If you do, you don't know much about Jack Ruby.

 

[Warren Sear]

I don't know anything about Carcanos, but I know this; I was in high school in 1963, and in 1969 while attending college, I met a young man who was intelligent, honest, and studying to become commercial photographer. In November of 1963 he had been working for the Dalas PD. It was his job to develop and print the black and white crime scene photographs, the Presidential assassination included. He told me that there were ALWAYS 6 photographs of every murder victim. They always followed the same pattern: top of head, left side, toward feet, right side, front, and back. Not this time. Although my friend had the entire roll of negatives, the police photographer did not shoot images of the top of Kennedy's head or of his left side. Perhaps he was coached?

Draw whatever conclusion you may.
Richard

Suffice to say this was not the typical murder.

 

[Old TexMex]

Any doubt expressed regarding the explanation of an occurance or program initiated by by a government (or popular media) will invariably result in mockery. The simplest method of mockery is to label the inquisitive as a "conspiracy theorist".
Should the "theory" be proven true in hindsight, another laughingstock is quickly erected to divert attention away from the false explanation originally issued... the one which has been debunked by the "theorist", "kook" or "wierdo".
Qualified scientists, experienced investigators and many inventors have been labelled "kooks" "weirdos" and "conspiracy theorists" until their studies, quests or projects have been proven.

those who express concern regarding "taking our guns" are often referred to as "conspiracy theorists".
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5NNOrp_83RU[/ame]

 

[DWalt]

One of the surest ways to go insane is to root through all of the conspiracy theories and the "evidence" supporting them in an attempt to make sense of the situation. Case in point - look up the "Sports Drome Shooting Range" stories involving LHO.

 

[old tanker]

Of all theories, one that I have not heard much about is that maybe Governor Connally was also a target. Oswald had a Dishonorable Discharge during a period of time when that was a virtual guarantee of nothing but menial, dead end jobs, if you could get a job at all.

Oswald had exhausted his appeals to get his discharge and DD214 upgraded. Connally, as Secretary of the Navy, was his last hope and Connally turned him down.

Connally always said that he was hit by the second round fired. That has helped keep some of conspiracy theorists afloat.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

Of all theories, one that I have not heard much about is that maybe Governor Connally was also a target. Oswald had a Dishonorable Discharge during a period of time when that was a virtual guarantee of nothing but menial, dead end jobs, if you could get a job at all.

Oswald had exhausted his appeals to get his discharge and DD214 upgraded. Connally, as Secretary of the Navy, was his last hope and Connally turned him down.

Connally always said that he was hit by the second round fired. That has helped keep some of conspiracy theorists afloat.

And as I mentioned earlier, Major General Edwin Walker, who Oswald aledgedly tried to assassinate first, ran for governor against Connolly and lost in the primary. And I believe he was a staunch anti Communist. Just because someone is paranoid does not mean they don't have a reason to be. And just because someone believes in a conspracy theory doesn't mean it ain't true. Look at the current IRS scandal. But what you say, old tanker, isn't far fetched. It only involves one nut. So it's a theory, but not a conspiracy theory.

 

[samnev]

I mean the clunky, hard to work action, the nutcracker trigger, bb gun sights, the single locking lug, etc. I see nothing impressive about it.

I don't expect to see a nice finish on a military rifle, but this thing just seems unsafe to me.

I agree with most of what is said here about the deficiencies of the Carcano especially the comment on the gritty hard to work action, trigger and sights. My 2 Carcano's have 2 bolt lugs. I don't think they are unsafe just not user friendly.

Also don't forget IIRC Oswald had 1 in the chamber before he shot so he only had to work the action 2X more which in the allowed time is easy to do even with the Carcano.

 

[amazingflapjack]

Prove you wrong?

Ok Guys:
50 + years and NOT one shred of hard evidence to support all these conspiracy theories!! Believe what you want but I still think it boils down to $$$$ period. Please feel free to prove me wrong!
Jim

I didn't notice anyone trying to convince you of anything Sir. You statement that there is no hard evidence seems to make me think that you may not have seen some of the things that others have posted. There is a mountain of documented "oversights" that should cause any casual observer to wonder what was going on in this so called investigation. The exorcise of a little critical thinking has brought me to a place lacking a conspiracy theory, but instead, a lack of illusion.

 

[model70hunter]

Conspiracy theories or non-conspiracy theories are exactly like 2 eye witness' who saw a crime and have 2 different versions. It is each individuals perception of what happened.

I have issue with conspiracy theories, I want the pure unadulterated facts. Some one mentioned Jack Ruby, well he passed shortly thereafter of cancer. Did he know this prior to shooting LHO?

Was he pressured by officials who knew of his shaded history?

J. Edgar hated the Kennedy's. He had power over every politician. He had serious power. Did he feel JFK was going to bring down the US or perhaps start WW3? There was that Cold War thing with nervous fingers on red buttons.

JFK's amorous adventures may have cost him all.

These are not conspiracies, but questions that won't be answered until we are gone.

Blocking us from facts does leave a taste in one's mouth that resembles conspiracy.

LHO. I do not think he was totally nuts or whacko. He did try to escape and possibly had a rabbit hole to go down if he had gotten further from Dallas.

If I was a conspiracy fella I might wonder how they came up with his name so quickly, but then, the PD went to the building and probably inquired about the employees and are all accounted for? We are all here except the surly one, LHO, may have been the response.

Too much is unknown, too many are in their graves, facts are skewed with speculation.

Just like Sgt. Friday, all I want is the facts Ma'am, just the facts.

 

[italiansport]

I didn't notice anyone trying to convince you of anything Sir. You statement that there is no hard evidence seems to make me think that you may not have seen some of the things that others have posted. There is a mountain of documented "oversights" that should cause any casual observer to wonder what was going on in this so called investigation. The exorcise of a little critical thinking has brought me to a place lacking a conspiracy theory, but instead, a lack of illusion.

Show us ONE PIECE of hard evidence that LHO didn't act alone. I await your display of anything that can be linked directly to this assassination that didn't come from the Texas Book Depository or from our slain President's body.
Jim