legality

[Hobie1]

Since I'm getting into a new venue with my recently purchased 15-22 MOE rifle and 15-22P guns, I need to know if I would take my MOE lower and put the 22p upper on it, would I be creating an illegal platform? SBR or AOW problems? The combo looks in my mind like it might feel good but not good enough to sit in a federal court.

Regards,
Hobie

 

[CrazyFingers]

As long as it is not illegal in your state, registered with the ATF, and you have the tax stamp for a SBR, you're fine.
Missing any of those three and you're looking at a serious problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_barreled_rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act#Criminal_penalties

 

[bradystrib]

i read somewhere owning both could be considered "content" to sbr...not sure on that though....

 

[Hobie1]

Holy crap.

Sorry, but if by owning these two guns, legally purchased from a long time local dealer(Gil Hebard Guns, Knoxville Il.)can be construed to be commiting a federal crime, I would of sure liked to know.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

I'm going to look a little more into this but I'm hoping that as long as I don't ever exchange the components, I isnt goin to prizen.

Hobie..........out for now

 

[Hobie1]

As long as it is not illegal in your state, registered with the ATF, and you have the tax stamp for a SBR, you're fine.
Missing any of those three and you're looking at a serious problem.

Short barreled rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
National Firearms Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I got a chance to sit down and read those references..........Okay, no SBR for me. If I go to a new range I'll leave one or the other at home.

Ready on the right

 

[Hobie1]

Isn't it a sad state of affairs that a piece of plastic could send you to a world of hurt?

Hobie

 

[Dragon88]

The combo looks and feels good...

You mean, it would probably feel good if you put them together, but you haven't, right?

Don't flirt with this idea or post about it on internet forums until you research the NFA and class 3 laws.

 

[Tram]

I got a chance to sit down and read those references..........Okay, no SBR for me. If I go to a new range I'll leave one or the other at home.

Ready on the right

I think you'd be fine carrying both to the range, but you might want to look into it more..

Having them both in your house at the same time, if it's wrong to take them to the range at the same time, is just as wrong..

 

[Hobie1]

Roger that

You mean, it would probably feel good if you put them together, but you haven't, right?

Don't flirt with this idea or post about it on internet forums until you research the NFA and class 3 laws.

Thank you as I just felt that might be okay but that's why i asked. They will be kept intact, no other action.

Thanks folks,

I'm learning.

 

[Rustpot]

The word bradystrib was looking for was "intent", as in you have the parts and although they are not illegally assembled it's very likely you intend to make an illegal configuration.

I think if you had a 10" barreled complete upper without a registered pistol lower you could be guilty of intent, but not by simply owning the 2 guns.

Same as it's not illegal to own a full-auto sear by itself, owning the gun the sear can be installed in without having paperwork on file is considered intent to construct a full-auto weapon.

This is also why barrels under 16" need permanently affixed muzzle devices to get them to 16" unless you have SBR paperwork/tax stamp. Otherwise you've got a rifle that can readily be made under a controlled length and guilty of intent to do so.

 

[Hobie1]

I was hoping to see a picture. Photochop anyone?

Just think about the little pistol upper on the rifle lower. Not going to happen in my life.

Hobie

 

[Dragon88]

I was hoping to see a picture. Photochop anyone?

Here you go:

National Firearms Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seriously don't joke about this stuff. You think the BATFE doesn't monitor forums like this? Discussing how to get a tax stamp for a class III item is one thing, but talking about just slapping a pistol upper on a rifle lower is asking for trouble, not only for you but for this forum.

 

[Hobie1]

Here you go:

National Firearms Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seriously don't joke about this stuff. You think the BATFE doesn't monitor forums like this? Discussing how to get a tax stamp for a class III item is one thing, but talking about just slapping a pistol upper on a rifle lower is asking for trouble, not only for you but for this forum.

There was no humor intended. I am finding quickly that I'm into a different area that I never dealt with before. All I'v ever owned are a couple match grade pistols and a couple rifles. My question was truly a new guy question. The subject will never come from me again. No kidding.
Thanks for your guidance.
I am going to research as much BATF material as I can because obviously i can't safely ask a simple question here without causing damage to this forum.
As a matter of fact, no great loss here, I'm out of here.

 

[VooDuuChild]

Just a thought. But since SBR laws are so rigid, I'm sure S&W took measures in order to keep the pieces from fitting. You'd think so anyhow.

I wanna see a photochop too!!!

 

[VooDuuChild]

Ok, here's my attempt...no photoshop, just good old microsoft paint. Here's a S&W M&P 15-22P MOE

Can someone make one with the butt extended? I can't find a suitable pic (well, I have only been lookin for MOE's).

Aieet, I think I got it. The second one has a shorter barrel, I wasn't really payin attention; just whippin these out. I like the first one better, haha.

 

[grimreaper21]

The word bradystrib was looking for was "intent", as in you have the parts and although they are not illegally assembled it's very likely you intend to make an illegal configuration.

I think if you had a 10" barreled complete upper without a registered pistol lower you could be guilty of intent, but not by simply owning the 2 guns.

Same as it's not illegal to own a full-auto sear by itself, owning the gun the sear can be installed in without having paperwork on file is considered intent to construct a full-auto weapon.

This is also why barrels under 16" need permanently affixed muzzle devices to get them to 16" unless you have SBR paperwork/tax stamp. Otherwise you've got a rifle that can readily be made under a controlled length and guilty of intent to do so.

i think proving that they are both fully independent purchases/weapons would be a logical defense to "not intent". but who says law is logical.

it's sad we have to make stupid laws like this because along the lines some idiots somewhere screwed it up for everybody else.
really makes no sense to me that the 15-22 pistol is legal but switching the receivers makes it illegal. it does not make the weapon any more 'dangerous'. is it basically because it now has a extendable stock? the weapon is just as deadly as if it didn't have the stock. Thats the whole "big jail time sentence"? hardly logical. but, thats how it is i guess.

 

[Hobie1]

I'm learning all the time. Just like when I bought my 15-22p I thought a VFG would be really cool. WRONG!!! I fortunately asked about it's legality and discovered I'd be breaking the law big time. So, no VFG for it ever.

I'm going to the range in a bit and run some rounds through these little jewels.

Regards,

Hobie

 

[infamous209]

whats scary is just cause you honestly dont know doesnt mean they wont throw the book at you

 

[Smithhound]

As one of the earlier posters pointed out, having both a rifle and pistol model at the same time, whether at the range or at home is not illegal, but having a rifle and an unattached pistol upper is cause for suspicion. The logical question anyone would ask is "Why do you have that?".
Definately do not put yourself into a situation that can, at the very least, cost you thousand of dollars to get out of.
Realistically tho, if the authorities are rooting around your house or person you've probably already got big time problems, that's just icing on the cake for them.
The process of obtaining an SBR, provided they are legal in your area, is easy. It just requires some leg work on your part, some spare cash and a bit of patience. If you want one go ahead with the process.
SBR's and Suppressed weapons are the hottest areas in firearms right now, people seem to have realized that full auto weapons have been pushed out of the price range for the average Joe/Jane and with the cost of feeding the same are just not feasable.
But anyone who is capable and has the initiative and funds can go thru the process and have something just as cool, but with a much smaller appetite.
I have a 10.5" AR (5.56) that i really like, does everything I want except make a loud, sustained blast. Really gets the attention at the range and is surprisingly accurate. I also have paperwork in for a YHM suppressor for my SIG 226 TAC, very much looking forward to gettiig that.
Enjoy the hobby but do be aware of the laws and consequences.
RD

 

[Brett248Vista]

Same as it's not illegal to own a full-auto sear by itself, owning the gun the sear can be installed in without having paperwork on file is considered intent to construct a full-auto weapon.

Owning an Auto-Sear most certainly *is* illegal unless you own a pre ban Machine Gun and have the valid tax stamp to own it.

"Regardless of the date of manufacture of a drop in auto sear, possession of such a sear and certain M-16 fire control parts is possession of a machinegun as defined by the NFA. Specifically, these parts are listed as “(a) combination(s) of parts” designed “Solely and exclusively” for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun and are a machinegun as defined in the NFA."

National Firearms Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia