LEND me your assistance. at LEASE look. VICTORY is at hand. * PICS ADDED #12 & 13

[Thinnes]

LEND me your assistance. at LEASE look. VICTORY is at hand. * PICS ADDED #12 & 13

I picked up a victory with some markings. I tried to research them but need some help please.

SN. V 266172, all #s matching, inc grips

Right side: 38 S&W ctg; one line address; indecipherable symbol under address; logo on side plate. FTR stamped above grip.

Butt: serial number, lanyard hole filled very well, initials GHD, symbol I can't make out under initials.Grip bottoms are stamped "19".

Top strap: United States Property. Rear sight fixed; front sight a serrated ramp, guessing it started out as a half moon sight.

Cylinder: at the rear of every flute is a crown with 3 letters below: BNP ? Chambers would not accept 38 special.

Left side: behind S&W on barrel is stamped 3 1/2 tons. Above that on the barrel it is stamped crown, -38, and -767". There is a crown on the frame where it accepts the barrel. In front of the trigger guard are crossed swords with numbers 1, 3, and 7?. Below the cylinder release latch is a large A F separated by an arrow pointing up.

Wife in bed -can't upload pics currently. I'm guessing this is a British Service revolver in 38 200 or 38 S&W? Are these the same? I wonder where it went? Who used it? I'm hoping the experts can tell me about this neat gun. Thanks Dave

 

[Tom Doniphon]

Yes, it was a British service revolver. The marks you describe were applied by the Birmingham Proof House in England. When the revolver was released for commercial sale it had to be proofed.

 

[BC38]

HEY! You got lucky! You found a BSR that hasn't been reamed for 38 specials. I wouldn't mind picking up a shooter grade specimen like that myself. I have no interest in one that has been butchered, but an unmolested example would pique my interest.

 

[Thinnes]

Thanks Tom

Do any of the marks relate to usage during the war? That seems like a lot of marks to apply after the fact. How about the number 19 on the bottom of the grips? Any good threads or articles about these guns to recommend to me?

 

[Tom Doniphon]

The proofs are not marks relating to the War. They would have been applied after the revolver was released from service for commercial sale. The number 19 could be a rack/inventory number which could be related to the War. The AF mark with arrow in between is likely an Australian ownership mark which would be related to War time use.

 

[Absalom]

You have an interesting one.

Some of the marks do indeed relate to the war. The A^F mark on the frame is a property mark signifying Australian Forces.

It also sounds like the gun has Australian FTR markings (post-war) under the one-line address, although the FTR above the grip doesn't mesh with that.

All this is odd, since the other non-factory marks are indeed post-war Birmingham commercial proofs and indicate that the gun was retired from service and sold into the civilian market in Britain, which did not usually happen to Australian-issued guns.

I would like very much to see some pictures of all those markings.

 

[Hondo44]

Right side: 38 S&W ctg; one line address; indecipherable symbol under address; FTR stamped above grip.
Thanks Dave

Dave,

The "one line address" you observe is MADE IN U.S.A., called a "one liner".
The symbol under it can be several things, have to see photo of that one.
Could be this on exported guns: NOT ENGLISH MAKE

Photo credit:dedburd

Or Aussie unit #s like this:

Photo by Teddydog

"FTR stamped above grip" refers to a rebuild comparable to what we call an arsenal rebuild on USA military guns.

Yes the 38-200 (British nomenclature), is a heavier bullet interchangeable cartridge with the 38 S&W (Smith nomenclature).

 

[Texas Star]

Keep in mind that Western, perhaps other US ammo makers, also offered a 200 grain bullet in .38 S&W ammo.

 

[Absalom]

Dave:

Take a look at picture 3. Does the FTR mark on yours look like one of these?

Here are some samples of arsenal refurbish marks (FTR = factory thorough repair, or just FR) on British Service models.

Lithgow Small Arms Factory, Australia:

Rifle Factory Ishapore, India:

Non-standard FTR mark, place of origin not certain:

Pakistani military refinish, no stampings, identifiable by stove paint and white numbers:

 

[Hondo44]

Keep in mind that Western, perhaps other US ammo makers, also offered a 200 grain bullet in .38 S&W ammo.

That's true, albeit it had a different designation; .38 S&W Super Police. No longer available for many years except from custom loaders.

 

[DWalt]

There was also a USA .38 Special 200 grain lead bullet loading called the .38 Special Super Police (NOT to be confused with the heavy .38 Special .38-44 loading). The idea in both calibers was that the heavy bullet had little gyroscopic stability and would yaw in body tissue, producing more severe damage. The original British Mark I load used prior to WWII had a 200 grain lead bullet (very similar to the .38 S&W Super Police load), later changed to the Mark II load which used a 178 grain FMJ bullet. SN V266172 likely shipped around March-April 1943.

 

[Thinnes]

Well I'm trying to add pics of the marks. Hope it works. Can you tell me about this gun? Apparently it went from Massachusetts to Australian hands to British hands and somehow found its way to the Hawkeye state. An 83 year old lady rancher responded to my ad in the paper. Made the deal in the Target parking lot. Not bad for $100. The gun did clean up nicely. Haven't shot it yet. Thoughts, observations, comments? Thanks Dave.

 

[Thinnes]

More Pics

More pics of the gun.

 

[Absalom]

Your earlier descriptions of the markings were pretty accurate, and I can't add much to what I wrote back then.

Presuming that none of the marks are spurious, it is a Lend-Lease gun that the A^F shows to have been in Australian service.

I cannot identify the mark that looks like a 75/c under the MADE IN USA.

The FTR was done someplace other than Lithgow, where the "official" Australian FTR program for S&W revolvers took place in 1953/54, and those guns remained in Australia until the 1980s.

Your gun ended up in Britain instead. It looks like the blue refinish was done over the post-service commercial Birmingham proofs, so the FTR, wherever it occurred, may be unrelated to the finish.

If I read the view mark (left above trigger) right, the proofing happened in 1958.

 

[BC38]

The reblue isn't that impressive, but I'd take it for $100.
Heck I'll give you double your money AND pay the FFL fees and shipping charges right now. Just send me a PM!

 

[Waveski]

The finish looks "dipped" , but - original chambering , decent grips and all - a very nice deal. Well below market value.
(Perhaps you should have offered the old girl a bit more.)

 

[MrG5122]

You guys amaze me with your knowledge!

 

[Texas Star]

Buffalo Bore makes a warm load in .38 S&W, but I think uses a 125 grain bullet that probably won't shoot to the sights.
Of course, if you're just point shooting at a burglar across the bedroom, that may not matter.

It's well worth handloading for. I wouldn't shoot living animals with normaal 146 grain ammo. You can load much more quickly lethal cartridges.

You stole it for that price. I'd have expected to pay about $250.