Length and Pressure? 357 in 38 case?

[Prof_Fate]

OK, I have a dilemma.

I have been reloading 9mm and 38spcl target (bunny fart - 2.8 bullseye/148wc) loads using bullseye, 231 and TG.

I got a rossi 92 chambered in 357 and want to shoot it - iron sight training on the cheap. So while I can shoot it with LRN at bunny fart velocities the ballistics suck - way way too much bullet drop at 100 or 200 yards (want to practice at 200 for CMP garand match -using a borrowed rifle so I have few options for practice and really need the practice.)

I have some fiocchi 357 that chronos out at 1850 fps and is accurate at 200 yards without terrible drop. Haven't tried my bunny farts but calculators say 40 some inches of drop at 200 if sighted at 100 yrd...ugly, huh? The fiocchi numbers say 11" of drop, well within the adj range of the rifle's sights.

OK...so far so good.
I can get the velocity I want, I think, with 2400 via 357mag cases. Which I have.
However, my press isn't happy..or maybe i"m not. I have to reset too many things between 38 and 357 cases.

So I'd like to load perhaps 10gr 2400 in a 38 case. THe bullet I'm hoping to use is s 158 LRN - we'll see if the lead can take the velocity, it should, but a few rounds will tell me strait away.

I see this load for 357 and with this bullet usually at 1.61" (over the max spec of 357...but that's another issue).

I can set the bullets out to get a OAL of 1.56 - possibly longer (haven't tried yet) so the case capacity is very close to 357. I've got a lee FCD so not hitting the crimp grove isn't an issue. In the past I've seated short in my 9mm to get certain bullet shapes to feed without issues so I doubt this will be an issue here, but I"m asking just the same.

I've seen 2400 loads for 38 spcl, but they're attempting to keep the pressures with in 38spcl specs. Way back in the day Elmer Keith loaded up to 14 gr 2400 in 38s.

I know what pressure signs to watch for (learned that in 9mm due to a bad scale and luckily I blew nothing up) so I"m not too concerned.

The longer barrel should add velocity...the slower speed of 2400 vs 231 say, should help too. The fiocchi is listed on their site at 1330 fps from a pistol and I got 1800ish - as expected. The 3.6 of 231 I tried (at 1.56 vs the books min of 1.475 which is still longer than the crimp groove would suggest) came out of the rifle at a sleepy 860 fps. A local ammo reman says he uses 5.3 of 231 but he's always quoting higher than book loads.

 

[jepp2]

I have to reset too many things between 38 and 357 cases.

One of my rules I never violate in reloading is to load a higher pressure round in a lower pressure cartridge. I am very careful and label everything very well, but if you happened to fire one of your high pressure 38 special rounds in a weaker 38 special, the results could be catastrophic. I know, you said you would seat the bullet to a longer OAL to avoid, but stuff happens.

Have you considered using the spacing washers that come in the RCBS die sets? It would minimize the effort to reset your dies when changing from 38 Special to 357 Mag.

You didn't mention ever actually having a 38 Special, so have you considered loading your light loads in a 357 Mag case? I only shoot 357 cases in my 357 Mag revolvers, even when I am shooting your equivalent 2.8 gr. of BE. I just bump the powder by 10% to accommodate the greater case capacity.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I try to never load overpressure loads in differently stamped brass. (.357 Mag pressures in a .38 Special case) No matter how careful you are accidents do and will happen.

BUT, if you must you can load a 158gr LSWC bullet over 5.0gr W231 in a .38 Special case and you will have a very accurate magnum type load for your Carbine.

 

[smithnframe]

I regularly shoot 13.5 gr. 2400 with the 173 gr. Keith bullet in 357 mag cases from a model 19-4 without any problems. One of Elmer's loads was that combination in 38 spl. cases. I have some but only shoot them from a heavier Colt New Frontier.

 

[Skip Sackett]

This is the reason there is a 357Mag! While the loads, you are looking for 38/44 type ones, are quite capable of being fired from your Rossi, it may not be a good thing should they find their way into that pot metal Saturday night special that you keep under your pillow.

Never do what you are attempting because once the bullet is on, you have no clue what is in the case and will have to go by the headstamp to be sure.

If it were me, I would use some knowledge. The difference between the cases should be .135" different in length. Make a spacer, have a spacer made, or use your calipers to get you close on an initial setup. Like this or similar:

This can be done in fashion with any press or die set.

 

[Prof_Fate]

I love the spacer idea. Great idea.

I made up a dozen 38 spcl 9.8gr 2400 158rn at 1.56" and from the rossi they come out 1350fps and very mild recoil. No signs of pressure. Bore looks, the best I can see, the same as with the light 231 loads.

I've not tried 5.0 of 231 but will.

As to the concern of putting a hot load in a weak gun, while that is certainly possible two things will prevent my from having this issue. First is my other gun is a 686 snubbie- a L frame 357. It should be fine should these loads end up in there by some weird accident - which isn't likely as i bought the 158 LRN specifically for the rifle. The snubbie gets DEWC or factory defence loads in 357 - both very different in appearance from a flat wadcutter.

What I may opt to do is get 357 dies for my single stage press and do some of the work on the progressive and some on the single stage, or set up a second head for 357.

Spent too much the past few weeks and don't feel liking spending bucks on dies this week...but likely the frustration of changing adjustment (and the inherent risk of getting it wrong) will likely have me getting a second set of dies for one or the other press.

 

[buck460XVR]

OK, I have a dilemma.


I got a rossi 92 chambered in 357 and want to shoot it - iron sight training on the cheap. So while I can shoot it with LRN at bunny fart velocities the ballistics suck - way way too much bullet drop at 100 or 200 yards (want to practice at 200 for CMP garand match -using a borrowed rifle so I have few options for practice and really need the practice.)

s.

If I understand this correctly, you are practicing for a 200 yard 30-06 Garand competition using a lever action .357. Why not, instead of trying to make the .357 shoot like a '06 using the wrong brass, use a smaller target at .38 special ranges? If you're only after technique, trigger and breath control, wouldn't this give you the same effect? Wind deflection on the slower/fatter round at a shorter distance would be much closer to the '06 at 200 than what it would be @ 200 also. JMTCs.

 

[Hansli]

If you have a turret press, buy a die setup for 357. No muss, no fuss. I also load 38/44 in 38 special cases with the bases painted red and in specially marked boxes.