LEOSA Amended to Apply to Retired Servicemembers for Concealed Carry

ozarkmac

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Not sure if it has been discussed on this forum or not, but the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) now applies to active and retired military police. The Air Force has been up and running theirs for awhile. The Army just got theirs going recently and the Navy which should include the USMC, are still evolving. The National Defense Authorization Act for 2013 amended LEOSA to make these categories eligible to apply and receive a concealed carry authorization which is accepted in all 50 states. Just Google LEOSA and you can see the requirements and start the process from there. The cost varies depending on where you do the security clearance and some other stuff but it's around $200 for lifetime permit. I was hesitant at first because of the "weapons qualification" requirements, but it is easier to maintain than I thought.
 
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I am pleased that retired military police service members are eligible for LEOSA. I do not understand why they should have to pay anything. My Sheriff's Office supports LEOSA. We qualify once yearly for each type of firearm we wish to carry. They mail us a new LEOSA card. All we pay for is ammunition.
 
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Not a 'lifetime permit.'

LEOSA is NOT a 'lifetime permit.'

Yearly qualification is a requirement. But a 'security clearance' is not.

Be safe.
 
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in my personal opinion I believe that EVERYONE should be able to go through the same process and be able to defend themselves in all 50 states. I don't think that being in the military or police force makes anyone more or less qualified to carry. I know many who are skilled shooters and are exceptionally well trained and have no law or military background, and I know police officers who aren't into guns other than what they have to do to qualify .
 
in my personal opinion I believe that EVERYONE should be able to go through the same process and be able to defend themselves in all 50 states. I don't think that being in the military or police force makes anyone more or less qualified to carry. I know many who are skilled shooters and are exceptionally well trained and have no law or military background, and I know police officers who aren't into guns other than what they have to do to qualify .

I agree with this,..... ALL folks should be permitted to traverse this great country with their CCW permit equally. I do feel that some mandated training should be applied as this right we have didn't see alof he legal minefields that ound in toy's world. I had well over 2500 hou of training in my time in public service and went oy own for at least 600 dditional hrs of traing and continuo train whenever possible. I ao must qualify once year for the ability to cross state nes undLLEOSA. I don't think it's unreasonable o manate some training for all in this case.
 
I agree that everyone should be able to carry and that others may be better shots than retired cops. The point is not who is the better gun handler, it is the street experience gained from a career in law enforcement, civilian or military. That's the crux of why LEOs were initially granted the right to carry across the US.
 
in my personal opinion I believe that EVERYONE should be able to go through the same process and be able to defend themselves in all 50 states. I don't think that being in the military or police force makes anyone more or less qualified to carry. I know many who are skilled shooters and are exceptionally well trained and have no law or military background, and I know police officers who aren't into guns other than what they have to do to qualify .

It's not about proficiency with a handgun. If it were, the qualification would be a lot tougher. It's GENERALLY more about the experience and decision-making ability and the fact that law enforcement people are GENERALLY vetted to a far greater degree than non-law enforcement.

The law was recently changed to allow retired federal agents the same "protection". Not sure if that's the amendment that also covers retired military. And the ones screaming the loudest to NOT allow federal agents to carry under the same circumstances were the "pro gun" types who contended: "If THEY get to, than WE should get to...." Furthering the "us v. them" perception....
 
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in my personal opinion I believe that EVERYONE should be able to go through the same process and be able to defend themselves in all 50 states. I don't think that being in the military or police force makes anyone ,more or less qualified to carry. I know many who are skilled shooters and are exceptionally well trained and have no law or military background, and I know police officers who aren't into guns other than what they have to do to qualify .

This

No special priveleges. If I( as a citizen) can't carry why should you be able to?
 
I agree that everyone should be able to carry and that others may be better shots than retired cops. The point is not who is the better gun handler, it is the street experience gained from a career in law enforcement, civilian or military. That's the crux of why LEOs were initially granted the right to carry across the US.

All due respect (and, I think we both agree with one another). For the sake of clarity:

The duties of LEO's are very different in kind from the private citizen's use of a firearm for defense of self and others under the mantel of their protection.

As an LEO, your responsibilities are to seek out the wrong doers, give chase when necessary, perform arrests using the necessary force to affectuate that arrest, and process the suspect for charges. All of that (and the street experience to which you refer) is very different from what law abiding private citizens seek to do in THEIR lawful uses of a firearm.

The private citizen does not need all of the street experience, because our purposes in the use of firearms only entails a defensive, last resort response to unjust and sudden violence directed upon self and those under the mantel of our immediate protection (dependents). We do not seek out malefactors, give chase, use force to detain, etc.

Therefore, we can grant that LEO's should be able to carry in all 50 states, but for very different reasons, for why private citizens should be able to carry in all 50 states. All we desire is to mind our own business while being prepared for the rare instance of unjust violence initiated against us by the wolves. For that, no 'extensive street experience is needed'.

That said, I do hope that LEO's carry off duty. It makes us all safer, just as I hope all responsible private citizens carry when it is lawful to do so.
 
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The duties of LEO's are very different in kind from the private citizen's use of a firearm for defense of self and others under the mantel of their protection.

Not true. The LEOSA was meant to apply to off-duty and retired officers. When off-duty or retired, they don't have any more obligation to intervene than non-police.

Does a non-police person take a battery of psychological tests to get his CPL? Does he have an interview with a psychologist? Does he have a background investigator show up to canvas his neighborhood? Does the background investigator ask each of his references for 3 or 4 MORE references? Do they go through a 20 or 30 hour class on criminal law? What kind of qualification course? Do they go from call to call on the road and have to make decisions when dealing with stressful situations? Being policeman has about one half of one percent to do with being armed. The rest is decision-making, de-escalating situations, dealing with people who don't want to see you, etc.

Yet some people seem to think they'd be great cops because: "I can shoot better than teh cop at the range!"

Now, if the "right to bear arms" folks were willing to go through the same vetting process as the cops, and be "re-examined" every 6 months or a year or so, I'd be fine with them having the same "privileges" as cops. It will never happen though, because it would be "too hard".
 
Does a non-police person take a battery of psychological tests to get his CPL? Does he have an interview with a psychologist? Does he have a background investigator show up to canvas his neighborhood? Does the background investigator ask each of his references for 3 or 4 MORE references? Do they go through a 20 or 30 hour class on criminal law? What kind of qualification course? Do they go from call to call on the road and have to make decisions when dealing with stressful situations? Being policeman has about one half of one percent to do with being armed. The rest is decision-making, de-escalating situations, dealing with people who don't want to see you, etc. .

I didn't realize you had to do all of those things so you could carry a gun. Oh, thats right. About 1/2 of 1% is about being armed.

So, tell me again. Why should retired police officers have more rights than me?
 
Not true. The LEOSA was meant to apply to off-duty and retired officers. When off-duty or retired, they don't have any more obligation to intervene than non-police.

Does a non-police person take a battery of psychological tests to get his CPL? Does he have an interview with a psychologist? Does he have a background investigator show up to canvas his neighborhood? Does the background investigator ask each of his references for 3 or 4 MORE references? Do they go through a 20 or 30 hour class on criminal law? What kind of qualification course? Do they go from call to call on the road and have to make decisions when dealing with stressful situations? Being policeman has about one half of one percent to do with being armed. The rest is decision-making, de-escalating situations, dealing with people who don't want to see you, etc.

Yet some people seem to think they'd be great cops because: "I can shoot better than teh cop at the range!"

Now, if the "right to bear arms" folks were willing to go through the same vetting process as the cops, and be "re-examined" every 6 months or a year or so, I'd be fine with them having the same "privileges" as cops. It will never happen though, because it would be "too hard".

You've obviously missed the larger point of my post; otherwise, you wouldn't have said what you just said. And you would not have had to limit your quote of mine to just one sentence from my entire post, taken in isolation.

The larger point was about how different the general training and 'street experience' of LEO are from the general training and uses of firearms in private citizens' hands. Conclusions drawn about LEO's and carry, cannot necessarily be applied to private citizens and carry. None of this entails that off-duty cops have an obligation to actually DO those things enumerated in my original post.
 
Not true. The LEOSA was meant to apply to off-duty and retired officers. When off-duty or retired, they don't have any more obligation to intervene than non-police.

Does a non-police person take a battery of psychological tests to get his CPL? Does he have an interview with a psychologist? Does he have a background investigator show up to canvas his neighborhood? Does the background investigator ask each of his references for 3 or 4 MORE references? Do they go through a 20 or 30 hour class on criminal law? What kind of qualification course? Do they go from call to call on the road and have to make decisions when dealing with stressful situations? Being policeman has about one half of one percent to do with being armed. The rest is decision-making, de-escalating situations, dealing with people who don't want to see you, etc.

Yet some people seem to think they'd be great cops because: "I can shoot better than teh cop at the range!"

Now, if the "right to bear arms" folks were willing to go through the same vetting process as the cops, and be "re-examined" every 6 months or a year or so, I'd be fine with them having the same "privileges" as cops. It will never happen though, because it would be "too hard".


Many military members also had to Go through same as what you describe and they weren't military police. Do they qualify too?

The Defense Investigative Service visited my parents, friends , and school when I got my Secret Clearance. When it was upgraded to Top Secret, they visited again.

I had to see a shrink. Went through several hours of firearms training.

Are we close yet? :p
 
I agree with this,..... ALL folks should be permitted to traverse this great country with their CCW permit equally. I do feel that some mandated training should be applied as this right we have didn't see alof he legal minefields that ound in toy's world. I had well over 2500 hou of training in my time in public service and went oy own for at least 600 dditional hrs of traing and continuo train whenever possible. I ao must qualify once year for the ability to cross state nes undLLEOSA. I don't think it's unreasonable o manate some training for all in this case.

I disagree that training should be mandated. Yes some folks need training. But who will oversee such a program? The Feds? That's all we need.
 
Most people ignore (or are unaware of) the US Merchant Mariners who have served as armed guards, escorts and port security in foreign ports and aboard, Occasionally in areas of military action not participated in by uniformed US servicemen (or other agencies of Uncle Sugar).

Personally, I don't want to have to sit with a federal shrink, I've got better things to do with my time.

And bythe way, the US Constitution is recognized in all 50 states, reciprocity should be universal nationwide.
 
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Keep in mind that the new provisions of the LEOSA apply only to military and DOD law enforcement officers. Just serving in the military is not enough.

I served for 30 years in the active and reserve components of the Army. And 13 of those years in Special Forces. I personally believe that none of my training in that time would qualify me to carry a concealed weapon. Rarely does military training involve shoot/don't-shoot scenarios in an environment with noncombatants present. And I know plenty of service members who are very inexperienced with handguns, even in Special Forces.

I also am a retired law enforcement officer. Any certified law enforcement training academy providing certifications involves a lot of handgun training, both in proficiency and decision making. There is no way the average civilian will have that amount of training unless they have pursued it themselves, which would be very rare.

Then there is the minimum number of years of experience required, which I believe is 10. The assumption is that if you serve 10 years as a cop and don't get fired you probably make sound decisions.

I am all for citizens having the right to carry and defend themselves. I just think most fall short in the training aspect. Especially decision making under high stress.

Just my 2 cents. :)
 
Not true. The LEOSA was meant to apply to off-duty and retired.....

Now, if the "right to bear arms" folks were willing to go through the same vetting process as the cops, and be "re-examined" every 6 months or a year or so, I'd be fine with them having the same "privileges" as cops. It will never happen though, because it would be "too hard".

The last part of your post is intriguing. Do you feel these "right to bear arms" folks should be prohibited from exercise of the 2nd Amendment?
And, do retired officers have to go through all the process you describe in order to bear arms? Or are Law enforcement officers actually "right to bear arms" folks too?

(I think most are, but I realize that there are some who feel otherwise.)
 

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