LEOSA question

[scootergirl69]

I am in the process of obtaining I.D. and qualification under LEOSA to carry concealed outside of my home state.I understand that you must qualify with the "type" of weapon you will ultimately carry under this law. Does that mean I MUST carry the EXACT weapon I used for qualification? Or can I qualify with my Model 10 4-inch and carry my Model 36 2-inch or any other revolver? Same question for semi-auto? Would I be allowed to qualify at the approved LEOSA course with both revolver and semi-auto? I'd appreciate any factual info other retired LEO's may wish to share. There seems to be a lot of ambiguity with this federal law. I'd be interested to hear any stories regarding CCW outside of your own home state while carrying under LEOSA. Thanks for your insight.

 

[scootergirl69]

I am in the process of obtaining I.D. and qualification under LEOSA to carry concealed outside of my home state.I understand that you must qualify with the "type" of weapon you will ultimately carry under this law. Does that mean I MUST carry the EXACT weapon I used for qualification? Or can I qualify with my Model 10 4-inch and carry my Model 36 2-inch or any other revolver? Same question for semi-auto? Would I be allowed to qualify at the approved LEOSA course with both revolver and semi-auto? I'd appreciate any factual info other retired LEO's may wish to share. There seems to be a lot of ambiguity with this federal law. I'd be interested to hear any stories regarding CCW outside of your own home state while carrying under LEOSA. Thanks for your insight.

"I'll be a needin' that....for squirrels and such."

 

[ispcapt]

Most states are saying "type" means revolver or auto. You'll have to see how your state lists it. It's possible they could be type specific. I don't recall hearing of any that are type specific but you need to see what your state says for qualification. Some states have set up programs, some haven't.

 

[ultra45]

I am in the process of obtaining I.D. and qualification under LEOSA to carry concealed outside of my home state.I understand that you must qualify with the "type" of weapon you will ultimately carry under this law. Does that mean I MUST carry the EXACT weapon I used for qualification? Or can I qualify with my Model 10 4-inch and carry my Model 36 2-inch or any other revolver? Same question for semi-auto? Would I be allowed to qualify at the approved LEOSA course with both revolver and semi-auto? I'd appreciate any factual info other retired LEO's may wish to share. There seems to be a lot of ambiguity with this federal law. I'd be interested to hear any stories regarding CCW outside of your own home state while carrying under LEOSA. Thanks for your insight.

You qualify by type, as you stated...Qualify with a revolver, qualifies you with ANY revolver, same for semi-auto. Your agency or state has no say in this regard. good luck.

 

[Big Cholla]

I am retired LEO and carry under the LEOSA law. Here in Nevada my certification card says "type". I qualify each year with 'A' revolver and 'An' autoloader of my choice and I am good to go to carry any specific model of each 'type' that I choose. In revolvers I have been known to carry a S&W Model 63 in .22LR and a S&W Model 657 in .41mag and some others in between. In autoloaders it is a Kel Tec .380 acp auto to a Colt Delta Elite in 10 mm and some others in between. I usually qualify with a S&W Model 66/2.5" bbl. and a S&W Model 4006. ......... Big Cholla

 

[cjw3]

In GA, the back of my cert card says "revolver and semi-automatic" which is what I qualified with, so our standards and training agency apparently feels the TYPE refers to the system of operation.

This is the actual wording of the pertinent section of the bill, as per retired officers:

''(B) ...a certification issued by the State in which the individual
resides that indicates that the individual has, not less
recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying
the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the
State to meet the standards established by the State for
training and qualification for active law enforcement officers
to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm."

I think you are GTG.

 

[The Big D]

The posters above who state that quals w/ a revolver enable you to carry ANY revolver are wholly correct. Of course, the same applies to those LEOSA folks who qualify with an autoloader...or both. You then can can tote ANY autoloader...or any revolver. You can also carry/load ANY ammo.

LEOSA is very simple; do not listen to those who find it in any way confusing.

Be safe.

 

[jtpur]

" My Department issues me ID that says, "WEAPON AUTHORIZED" SEMI AUTO. I believe the term "same type" means the type of action. I think the LEOSA law does not define TYPE.... I think that some day someone is going to have a court case, civil probably, criminal maybe, where 'TYPE" is argued by the Lawyers and eventually defined by a Court of Appeal. I personally carry my Sigma 9VE. I carry that because that is what I used to qualify. I carry the ammunition the Department gives me. (Mine does) yours may not, so carry what you want. I do not want an issue made in a civil trial, "You qualified with a Sigma but you killed the kid down the street with a KelTec because you obviously can't shoot a KelTec....." I might accidentially shoot the kid down the street with the Sigma and maybe my argument won't hold water but perhaps it negates the negligence from Gross negligence to just simple, negligence.......I also dont want an argument with a cop in NJ or Illinois about what "Type" means cause I don't want to be the test case. Hope that helps scottergirl.

 

[ispcapt]

States may very well set whatever they want for "type". Type is not defined in LEOSA and as another said it may involve a court case before type could have a universal definition. Currently most states go with the definition of auto for all autos and revolver for all revolvers.
IL was one of the first states, if not the first state, to have a statewide LEOSA program in place. Many states followed our program. And if you check around you'll find there are still quite a few states who haven't implemented a statewide program after these many years which for retirees caused a lot of problems with them getting qualified. With the changes to LEOSA in 2010 it made it easier for retirees in states that have no program.
I sat on the committee when we were working on our program so I have a bit broader experience of what was being discussed within some states when LEOSA was signed. We fielded quite a few calls from several other states who were calling to see what we had set up. There were some states who were considering setting some definition of "type". Their logic had some merit. The common concern we heard was mostly related to autos. Qualifying someone on a 1911 does not mean the person has any knowledge of a S&W d/a type, or an H&K P7, or several others which operate differently from other autos. There were several states concerned that these autos, while autos, were not the same 'type' of auto. Note that LEOSA makes no mention of revolver or auto, only type. Whether those states actually implemented a more restrictive definition I do not know. However, since I know there were states which were at least considering it before I'd give blanket "it's OK" to anyone I suggest they check with their home state where qualifying.
Just because your state certifies one way does not mean every state does it the same way. I seem to recall someone from TX on this very list who a couple of years ago thought just because he had an ID card and had fired a course of fire that he was good to go. A check with the TX LEOSA certification showed him he was far from being completely certified. But he had talked to someone in another state and thought because that state had done their certification a certain way that he was good to go in TX. Liability-wise he learned his behind was hanging way out there because he wasn't actually certified.

 

[jtpur]

I have copied the relative sections of the LEOSA act that was signed by President Obama October 2010. Note (5) it says the "States" standards---but which "State" is not really defined. State, from which one retired or State in which one lives. Read further:


(7)(d)(1) calls for photographic identification issued by the retired officer's department that indicates he has qualified within the past 12 months with the "type" of weapon....Now go further and continue to read: The last word of this particular section is "OR" and after "OR" we see (2)(A) or photo identification from the retired officers Department......and certification from the State in which the officer resides.

To sum this up: The amended LEOSA act provides two ways for retired guys to qualify and clarified some of the confusion of the original LEOSA act. You can return to your department and qualify even if you live out of state or if you can not return to your home department You can obtain identification issed by the Department and qualify to the Standards established for active duty LEO's in the State in which you reside. This really helps federal guys whose agencies for whatever reason will not let them qualify. They can find a friendly department in their State of residence and qaulify. Here in Texas a CHL instructor can do this qualification under TCLOSE.....or you can find a department in this State. That is why I offer to qualify any out of State Officer living in Texas. You might not find a department to qualify you but I can and will if you wanna buy me lunch. I hope this clears up the LEOSA stuff....the actual law is US Code 18 section 926 read it for yourself....but the way I understand it is listed above. and I copied the revelant parts right from the code itself and pasted them below.

(5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the
expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and
qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry
firearms;
(6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another
intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
(7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
(d) The identification required by this subsection is -
(1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from
which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement
officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently
than one year before the date the individual is carrying the
concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency
to meet the standards established by the agency for training and
qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a
firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or
(2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from
which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement
officer; and
(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual
resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently
than one year before the date the individual is carrying the
concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to
meet the standards established by the State for training and
qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a
firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.

 

[The Big D]

That's it in a nutshell...quite simple, IMHO.

FTR, I am currently gunless as my LEOSA creds expired last week...my fault, see my post re: that fact if interested...but will be qualifying anew next Tuesday, August 9.

Noteworthy is the fact that the great state of Maryland is now allowing the qualifying organization (Maryland Corrections and Police Training Commission) to issue the creds following completion of the training. In Maryland that consists of classroom training and range qualification. Previously we submitted documentation of training and application for LEOSA creds to the Maryland State Police for issuance.

I believe I am among the first group to benefit by the new procedures and will comment re: that next week.

Be safe.

I have copied the relative sections of the LEOSA act that was signed by President Obama October 2010. Note (5) it says the "States" standards---but which "State" is not really defined. State, from which one retired or State in which one lives. Read further:


(7)(d)(1) calls for photographic identification issued by the retired officer's department that indicates he has qualified within the past 12 months with the "type" of weapon....Now go further and continue to read: The last word of this particular section is "OR" and after "OR" we see (2)(A) or photo identification from the retired officers Department......and certification from the State in which the officer resides.

To sum this up: The amended LEOSA act provides two ways for retired guys to qualify and clarified some of the confusion of the original LEOSA act. You can return to your department and qualify even if you live out of state or if you can not return to your home department You can obtain identification issed by the Department and qualify to the Standards established for active duty LEO's in the State in which you reside. This really helps federal guys whose agencies for whatever reason will not let them qualify. They can find a friendly department in their State of residence and qaulify. Here in Texas a CHL instructor can do this qualification under TCLOSE.....or you can find a department in this State. That is why I offer to qualify any out of State Officer living in Texas. You might not find a department to qualify you but I can and will if you wanna buy me lunch. I hope this clears up the LEOSA stuff....the actual law is US Code 18 section 926 read it for yourself....but the way I understand it is listed above. and I copied the revelant parts right from the code itself and pasted them below.

(5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the
expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and
qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry
firearms;
(6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another
intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
(7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
(d) The identification required by this subsection is -
(1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from
which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement
officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently
than one year before the date the individual is carrying the
concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency
to meet the standards established by the agency for training and
qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a
firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or
(2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from
which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement
officer; and
(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual
resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently
than one year before the date the individual is carrying the
concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to
meet the standards established by the State for training and
qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a
firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.