Let's do some brainstorming

vikgorr

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I’m happy to state that educational and intellectual qualities of this forum are well above the average (in my opinion). And I totally agree with the calls to finance NRA and to stuff mail boxes of our representatives with petitions to protect our rights from our representatives.
But I suggest we can go farther. We can put our brains together and come up with the proposal which would take care once and for all of this mass shooting insanity. Then we can arm with this proposal every congressman and every organization willing to defend constitution. What the hell, the President will jump on the wagon himself as soon as he sees our inescapable logic.
I have to say that arming the teachers might just prove wrong. It’s not hard to imagine that the next teacher accused of mass child molestation will pull his gun and dispose of these cry babies who ratted him out (or falsely accused him). Needless to say, this one will be NRA’s fault.
Here is some of what I think could help. All opinions accepted.
Restrict mass media coverage. No headlines, just obituaries. Perpetrator is always nothing but a mad dog. Normal people would not look for a mad dog’s reasons. If the perpetrator is dead, then it’s a done deal. If he is taken alive, then press should have its time describing his electro shock treatments (living mad people belong to the mad houses, not to a jail with $800/day tab) and showing his pictures before, during and after. That would help with copy-cat reduction.
NRA should have a $10 mil lawsuit against any media outfit which provided incorrect information about type or use of a weapon.
If we were able to put a metal detector booth with an armed guard in every courthouse, I could not see a reason why we don’t have it in every school. If there is a shortage of booths or guards, let’s take care of schools first. Judges do not need permission to have a gun, besides there are always a few cops on duty at a court house.
To reduce the propaganda of violence I would charge the movie makers $1000 for every single shot, $10000 for a trigger squeeze on full auto and $100K for every 7th shot out of six-shooter. For this money we could afford to improve our education system. That would also help to get the ammo to Cabela’s.
In the schools, I’d stop teaching use of condoms and start teaching value of the life.

Let’s get constructive, let’s help our government!
 
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Nope.

We don't trample on any other rights to save one. They are all sacrosanct.

The proposal to "arm teachers" really wasn't. It was a proposal to allow teachers, administrators or citizens who have the skill, knowledge and ability permission to carry concealed firearms on school premises. Thus eliminating "victim zones" where only the bad guy will have a gun. It also suggested a role for returning combat veterans in this as employment. The NRA offered to financially support this.

Your analogy of a child molestor being able to "silence" his victims because of this is absurd.

I agree on televising the punishment. I like electro shock, caning, and for those who visit harm on a child, emolation. But I don't believe it will happen. All that civilization.

How about let's make hard on the bad guys for once, and not the good guys. Prosecute the crimes being committed. Once could be a mistake, twice should be put away for good. You murder someone, fine, one person could be passion, vengeance, a heat of the moment. Two or more, the death penalty. After all, they didn't hang horse thieves for stealing horses, they hung them so they wouldn't steal any more horses.
 
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Just take all guns away. Everything will be better then.

Don't hold the individual accountable. No, blaim the Government - it's easier.

Take away death row... how cruel is that to this good people.

Ban gas guzzlers as well. Everyone should buy a bicycle, no everyone MUST buy a bicycle by law. Because a) America is too fat and b) with all guns been taken away there is no crime anymore, so you can get out and actually go on the streets w/o having any concerns.

And for 2014 we take away toilet paper. This horrible tree killing has to stop...

Because one thing is for sure... Everybody loves Raymond :rolleyes:
 
Enforce People being responsible for their actions.

JAIL CRIMINALS, build tent city jails if you must.

These are JAILS, not Vacation Spots.

Build more courtrooms and hire more judges.

Run Courtrooms 24/7 if you must.

Streamline the legal system, way too many delaying motions that clog the system. Change the RULES.

Reopen Mental Health facilities for those who are truly NOT RESPONSIBLE for their actions.

Execute Major Drug Traffickers and Career Criminals (a fast track system).

Put learning back in the schools, either book or a trade.

Put Morality/Civility/Rules back in the schools, too many are just cesspools in large cities.

People who choose to act like animals, treat them like one, get them a smaller cage.

RANT OFF!!!
 
the problem with new laws and regulations is that it just creates more criminals.
Looking at NYS of late, they've synthesized a whole lot of em over the past few weeks. To the letter of the law, NYS calls many previously honest gun owners criminals now ... even though I and perhaps most other here, prefer to think of them as patriots.

the road to sanity is not paved in law, but rather the streamlining of laws through overturning the trainloads of nuisance legislation in place due to the folly of failed ideology through history.
 
Everybody's got an idea on how to fix a problem that's IMPOSSIBLE to fix. You can't predict, deter, or stop human psyche and its behavior.

I agree with some of this.
it is impossible to predict, at least with reasonable certainty.
it is DIFFICULT to deter, as this would require some prediction through profiling.
now STOPPING would be far from impossible. In fact, odds are improving.
You see, as we as a collective society, reclaim our 2A roots, as approximately 80% of our population has demonstrated over the past month, the regular carry of concealed weapons will lose its social taboo image.
the more we have out there actively carrying, the more likely evil is to be stopped.
 
I don't have

any answers to solve the problem. We want everyone to honor the second amendment. I think we should think about educating the nation on the the other 9 amendments. The bill of rights are a guide for the people as what the role of government is when governing the people. The courts has to this point up held our rights to keep and bear arm if we don't spend more time talking and educating our children on the first 10 amendments the people will lose them all. The media is leading the charge on removal of our rights.

How do we as gun owners chance the publics prospection of a gun owner vs criminal with a gun.?
 
Everybody's got an idea on how to fix a problem that's IMPOSSIBLE to fix. You can't predict, deter, or stop human psyche and its behavior.

That's basically it in a nut shell.

The additional problem is that there are too many moving parts...politicians thinking they need to 'DO SOMETHING' , left-leaning media, ultra-violent videos and games these 'small brains' watch, lack of mental and emotional help for parents (even parents themselves), the judicial system, individuals of every stripe... I could go on!

Just look at the blow-back in gun sales/shows these several school shootings have had due to the media hype... who think, 'If it bleeds, it reads'. What about the million other violent deaths each year in America?

If we don't watch, listen to, or read the news - we know very little - that might be a better thing. Know that the Media feeds us all.


Our Constitution and Bill of Rights did not 'give' us our basic freedoms and rights - they were just written down for all to see and to be held to account.

GUNS help insure that accountability.
 
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“Your analogy of a child molestor being able to "silence" his victims because of this is absurd.”
jlrhiner

Firstly, the verb used was “dispose” not “silence”. Secondly, I don’t see as absurd possibility of serial child molester becoming mass murderer with nothing to loose, sense of restored justice and satisfaction of retaliation. Where I come from, child molestation is the worst possible crime. Murderer at least can blame an animal instinct for his actions.

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“Everybody's got an idea on how to fix a problem that's IMPOSSIBLE to fix. You can't predict, deter, or stop human psyche and its behavior. “
all357mag

Prediction is possible given opportunity to conduct close observation of a subject. For now, we lack the sufficient capacity for collection and processing data for the whole population. Give it 5-10 years. Then there a question will rise of taking freedoms of many to possibly protect one. We are going to face some hard choices.
To stop human psyche you need to sedate or kill it. To change it, all you need is time and know how. Less time for an individual, more time for a nation.
Deterrence of the crime is the only practical solution available to us. It always was and always will be. I love how Jack London described the concept in his Klondike story.
Here it is as short as possible. Two men decided to resolve their argument with a duel, which was in disagreement with the local rules (there was no lawyer down there, so there were no laws ;)). Concerned citizens followed them to the place of action with a ready-go noose and an offer: you can go on with your shooting, but the man standing will be hanged on the nearest tree. As soon as duelists realized the readiness of the people to follow up on the promise, they changed their minds.
Not everyone will be deterred by a death threat (seems like a few years ago a thought of burning in hell was pretty sufficient deterrent). So, highly advertised living hell should be invented (or dusted off) for crimes like premeditated murder. Even that would not deter a suicidal maniac who is afraid to go alone. In this case only alertness of surrounding people can help.
One more about changing psyche: if instead of every shot you here, see, or read about during your life time (courtesy of our mass amusement media) you see and here “You shall not kill”, then you would not kill. They made us believe that something is wrong with us if our teeth are not perfect, did not they?

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“the problem with new laws and regulations is that it just creates more criminals.
Looking at NYS of late, they've synthesized a whole lot of em over the past few weeks. To the letter of the law, NYS calls many previously honest honest gun owners criminals now..." venomballistics

That is how it’s done. No confiscation necessary. You turn ‘em in yourself just to avoid the trouble.
What about reclaiming 2A, I hope somebody in congress will mention empty gun stores across the nation. But most surely it will be attributed to the greed of the dealers who use the moment to jack the prices.
 
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Verbiage matters not. Silence, dispose, same thing. Implying that allowing law abiding citizens the right to have the means to defend themselves and the children placed under their care would in any way allow a child molestor to get away with their crime, is absurd. It is the same logic being used by the gun banners. The mere presence of a firearm is not, in and of itself, an indicator of "bad" things to happen. Someone who is predisposed to commit a horendous crime, such as child molestation, rarely has a line that they will not cross.

Please think about your analogies. This forum gets over 100,000 hits per day, many of those folks are not on our side. Wouldn't you hate to turn up in a national debate being cited as "See, even over on the S&W Forum they think guns in schools are a bad idea. It would enable a child molestor to "dispose" of his victims."
 
Verbiage matters not. Silence, dispose, same thing. Implying that allowing law abiding citizens the right to have the means to defend themselves and the children placed under their care would in any way allow a child molestor to get away with their crime, is absurd. It is the same logic being used by the gun banners. The mere presence of a firearm is not, in and of itself, an indicator of "bad" things to happen. Someone who is predisposed to commit a horendous crime, such as child molestation, rarely has a line that they will not cross.

Please think about your analogies. This forum gets over 100,000 hits per day, many of those folks are not on our side. Wouldn't you hate to turn up in a national debate being cited as "See, even over on the S&W Forum they think guns in schools are a bad idea. It would enable a child molestor to "dispose" of his victims."

Exactly my point. But it looks like I did not make it clear enough that by "molester" I meant a teacher.
Ex-L.A. teacher charged with molesting 23 children
You are right, one should be careful what he writes, and not to leave an openings for misinterpretation.
I firmly believe in Constitution as it was written. And I believe that 2A was intended as a deterrent to usurping the power by occasional "Napoleon". And for that purpose 2A does not restrict militia to the arms inferior in fire power.
But I still think that a gun in the hands of untrained school teacher will not do much good.
The single controlled entry point will do a better job, especially if served by a professional.
 
That is how it’s done. No confiscation necessary. You turn ‘em in yourself just to avoid the trouble.
What about reclaiming 2A, I hope somebody in congress will mention empty gun stores across the nation. But most surely it will be attributed to the greed of the dealers who use the moment to jack the prices.

in some book its how its done .. in reality, they are a breath away from armed revolt, lynchings, and martial law.
The focus should be upon repealing laws rather than drafting new ones.
just as they drafted laws that made criminals out of NY residents. So too can we make criminals our of ourselves through the drafting of additional laws.
 
But I still think that a gun in the hands of untrained school teacher will not do much good.
The single controlled entry point will do a better job, especially if served by a professional.

ok dude ... turn off CNN cause I have an astonishing fact for you.
The school shooter they'd face from ambush positions are also untrained
I think armed teachers have strong advantages .. the shooter must breach the door then acquire targets .. the teacher need only hold on the door to find their target.
 
Everybody's got an idea on how to fix a problem that's IMPOSSIBLE to fix. You can't predict, deter, or stop human psyche and its behavior.

Unfortunately this statement is absolutely correct. Instead of accepting and focusing on the societal changes that are required to develop a less violent and dangerous climate the pols focus on useless legislation in the mistaken belief that it will do anything to affect criminal behavior.

When many of us were growing up there were something like 3 billion people on earth. Now we have something in the neighborhood of 7 billion. The simple law of averages mean there is an increase of mentally unstable people. Couple that with the age of instant communication and the crazies can instantly find and communicate with other crazies and they feed off each other until their craziness becomes normal and then becomes part of society.

The Kelbolds, Holmes, and Lanza's of the world were bound not only by the horrific crimes they committed but by mental instabilities and internet group associations. From obsession with violent video games to certain dark movies these guys sat in their sickness glued to their computer until they snapped.

Equally unfortunate is the only real solution. Ensuring there are enough trained and equipped people stationed in places where we congregate including public functions, public businesses and yes, schools.

Politicians are unwilling to address the root cause because it is difficult. They are all to quick to focus on the tools. The tools in the hands of law abiding citizens are effective and offer the only solution.

But that is the antithesis of the current crop of politicians in power who think the average citizen is a dolt that needs government help to survive.

Just look at 9/11. The problem of hijacking an airliner was 100% solved on 9/11. Didn't need any further action at all. The American people, the last line of defense, stood up and took out not only Flight 93 but have discovered and stopped all major attempts since then. From the shoe bomber to the underwear bomber the people on the flight stopped the perpetrators immediately. TSA missed them, technology missed them, but our citizens caught them and stopped them.

Trained and equipped American Citizens are the last line of defense and should be encouraged, not be made instant criminals.

This is evolving into an attempt to fundamentally shift our country from a liberty based society to a orwellian government based society. Put whatever "ism" label on it you wish but liberty doesn't have a "ism" and is so much more valuable but like trust....once it is gone it is nearly impossible to get it back
 
The proposal to "arm teachers" really wasn't. It was a proposal to allow teachers, administrators or citizens who have the skill, knowledge and ability permission to carry concealed firearms on school premises. Thus eliminating "victim zones" where only the bad guy will have a gun. It also suggested a role for returning combat veterans in this.

Did you miss this? A broad statement that all teachers are not trustworthy because some have done wrong is exactly the same way gun owners are treated.
 
When many of us were growing up there were something like 3 billion people on earth. Now we have something in the neighborhood of 7 billion. The simple law of averages mean there is an increase of mentally unstable people. Couple that with the age of instant communication and the crazies can instantly find and communicate with other crazies and they feed off each other until their craziness becomes normal and then becomes part of society.

Good stuff, SanJoseScott,

I grew up with "Roy Rogers", Now we have those who grew up with "Mr. Rogers".

More later...
 
Why not to create a new law enforcement career called School Police.
Require the same kind of training for a Reserved Police Officer II level training.
Then assign those officers to a school.
Who will be irritated if there was a police officer in front of the school during morning hours when parents and school buses bringing the kids?
Also when kids are in the class who will find it unreasonable if two officers were patrolling the school grounds.

In this job market I bet there will be thousands of people would love to have a position like that with much less than the cost of a regular LEO.

Monday thru Friday with 7am to 3 pm kind of work hours.
Off on weekends, off on most holidays...
Darn, I want a job like that.
 
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