Let's see your U.S. Model 1917 S&Ws!

[M2MikeGolf]

Nice revolvers, Oyeboteb, I'm lovin' that "artillery" model. What's the actual length on that?

Paid for my M 1917 today, register it tomorrow. Now all I have to do is be patient for about a month....

 

[1947Indian]

Whitey's 1917

Hi All, I'm a new member to the forum. I saw all these nice 1917s so I thought I'd show mine off some. Thanks for all the good pics - Whitey

 

[keving138]

Commercial M1917 Ser# 1738XX

Got this 1917 today. It's a commercial model and has been reblued and reabused and it does not have the original grips, but its mine and it shoots fine!

 

[bubbajoe45]

This one's no longer original, but still revered.

 

[Lefkiguy]

Just picked this one up, refinished by S&W in 1969.

 

[M2MikeGolf]

Finally got my Model 1917 today after two months of waiting for the paperwork to clear. I was hoping to get it by the anniversary of the fall of Bataan, but can't complain too much considering the German love of bureaucracy. I'm thinking the finish is original, and although the outside is a little rough (no pitting though), the bore and chambers look almost new. I took the sideplate off, and although there was too much oil, there was no rust, no gum and no pitting. Range test this Sunday, can hardly wait. Extremely happy as this is a rarity of rarities here in Germany! Just wish I knew the story of how it got here....

 

[labwild]

S&W 1917

No. 171649

 

[M2MikeGolf]

I hate to see this thread die out, hope that Model 1917 owners will keep 'em coming!

For the veteran 1917 owners, I have an ammuntion question. My M1917 seems to be shooting quite well; at ten meters with no rest other than a good two hand grip, I am getting 2" or so groups which I think to be pretty decent. There is an occasion wild flier, which I am not sure if "operator" induced or something else, but it actually seems to shoot tighter as it warms up, much like a good old M-1 Garand. However, it shoots high, a good 6" or so at ten meters. I am using 230 gr. FMJ Magtech ammuniton as it was all I had available to me at the time. I am thinking about trying to get some Federal 230 gr. "Personal Defesne" JHP (C45D) as it is really suited to a revolver (it's really a semi jacketed HP and Federal even recommends it for revolvers in .45 ACP). They also make this in 185 gr. I don't really intend on using this as "defensive" ammunition, but actually for finishing shots on game (I live in Germany, this is what "defense" ammunition is used for). My guess is that I should stick with the 230 gr. as I would assume the 185 gr. would shoot even higher. Anyone have experience with the ammunition or shooting high problem? I don't want to do any filing of rear sight on this revolver, and sending to S&W is out of the question since I am in Germany.

Like all you other M1917 owners, I am really happy with this old warhorse. It amazes me how well it shoots and functions at the tender old age of ninety-two. Although I paid about $600 for it, over here in Germany that's a deal and half; nothing is cheap over here anymore. Wish I had found it about ten years ago before the Euro hit, it probably would have been dirt cheap!

 

[Oyeboteb]

I hate to see this thread die out, hope that Model 1917 owners will keep 'em coming!

Gongratulations M2MikeGolf on it all having finally come through!


The price you mention would have been a good price over here in the States, ( I would have spring for it, had it been at the local Gun Show ) so, all in all I would say you did well, especially for being in Germany where I would expect prices for older high Grade American revolvers, to usually be quite a bit higher.

For the veteran 1917 owners, I have an ammuntion question. My M1917 seems to be shooting quite well; at ten meters with no rest other than a good two hand grip, I am getting 2" or so groups which I think to be pretty decent.

Very decent indeed..!

There is an occasion wild flier, which I am not sure if "operator" induced or something else, but it actually seems to shoot tighter as it warms up, much like a good old M-1 Garand. However, it shoots high, a good 6" or so at ten meters.

I have not shot these enough to know, but, I would imagine they maintained the tradition of Military Revolvers being sighted for quite a bit longer distance than you are Shooting at.

So, just Aim to 6:00 O'Clock, and, if that is not enough, then, of course, Aim a little below 6:00 O'clock...( chuckles )

I am using 230 gr. FMJ Magtech ammuniton as it was all I had available to me at the time. I am thinking about trying to get some Federal 230 gr. "Personal Defesne" JHP (C45D) as it is really suited to a revolver (it's really a semi jacketed HP and Federal even recommends it for revolvers in .45 ACP). They also make this in 185 gr. I don't really intend on using this as "defensive" ammunition, but actually for finishing shots on game (I live in Germany, this is what "defense" ammunition is used for). My guess is that I should stick with the 230 gr. as I would assume the 185 gr. would shoot even higher. Anyone have experience with the ammunition or shooting high problem? I don't want to do any filing of rear sight on this revolver, and sending to S&W is out of the question since I am in Germany.

Do you have any re-Loading experience?


Ligher Bullets, under full standard Charges, might actually shoot lower.


But regardless, if this is a Revolver you will enjoy Shooting, the ideal, would be to be re-Loading for it, thus allowing a variety of Bullet kinds, and, charges for different purposes.

Semi-Wadcutters, light Charges, for Target...etc.

Like all you other M1917 owners, I am really happy with this old warhorse. It amazes me how well it shoots and functions at the tender old age of ninety-two. Although I paid about $600 for it, over here in Germany that's a deal and half; nothing is cheap over here anymore. Wish I had found it about ten years ago before the Euro hit, it probably would have been dirt cheap!

Pardon me for accidentally having been missing this Thread for a while.

You had asked me a few Posts above this, what the Barrel Length of my Long Barreled one is ( which had been Re-Barrelled, of course), and, it is 6-1/2 Inches.

My own opinion about these is that their Bores would prefer to have the ease and virtually indeffinite longevity of shooting Lead Bullets, than the strains and wear of the full Copper Patch or other Jacketed.

One may also find a a slightly higher order of Accuracy, using appropriately sized Lead Bullets, than with Copper Patch or Hard Ball ( at least in theory! ).

Lead is kinder to the Revolver and it's Bore life.


The S&W Model of 1917 is the first Revolver I ever shot.

I was eight, and, my dad ran me through the basic drills and protocols, and, after that, when we'd go Fishing or Rock Hounding, he'd bring it and we'd shoot some rounds through it.

I was immediately a crack shot with it, shooting off Cigarette 'Cherries' and hitting Acorns and all sorts of things, Cans we'd set up, all the usual, and, I really liked it.

No ear protection of course in those days, and, I have no recollection of the report ever bothering me ( though I am sure my Ears must have rung! ). We always shot Gov't issue brown Box WWII Surplus Hardball.

All I know is that I deduced the Sighting the Revolver required, for me to hit what I wanted, where I wanted.

So, it if shot High ( as I am expecting they all did ) I never knew it as such, since I had learned to Aim according to where it hit.

 

[M2MikeGolf]

Oyeboteb,

Thanks for the comments and experience, especially the story of you and your dad. My dad is not so interested in firearms, but both of my grandfathers were, and both carried M1911s in WWI and WWII; I still have my father's father's Colt Governement model that he carried in WWII, but not here in Germany. Anyway, I understand the value of a parent or family member making sure that a child learns about firearms in environment such as we both had; it teaches safety and respect and often begins one on a journey through life at least to some degree.

I have experience with handloading, and would love to do handload, for a variety of weapons I have here in Germany, however, one must take a reloading course and obtain a license to do that, and it's simply too hard to make that happen, as well as expensive here in Germany.

I understand the value of softer shooting with lead nosed bullets, but they are not easy to come by here in Germany either, the Germans prefer FMJs; until just a few years ago, handgun ammuntion couldn't even have hollow points. I have never been that crazy about lead bullets due to leading. I began thinking about that, and went back and very carefully examined the bore on my M1917 and discovered it had an alarming amount of lead around the throat. It took me about an hour with Shooter's Choice (the best I had at the time; Hoppe's #9 is really hard to find over here and I'm all out) to get all that lead out of the bore and forcing cone. I don't mind long cleaning sessions, in fact I rather enjoy them, but what concerns me is how hard all that lead was to detect. Interestingly, my chambers are clean through and through, so somebody did a pretty good cleaning before me, but missed all that lead. Anyway, I guess it's the old soldier in me, but I prefer and least a semi-jacketed bullet these days, copper is much easier to detect and clean (unless you are talking about machine guns).

As far as the high shooting, I'm not too concerned with it, was just wondering if anyone else had that experience. I was able to compensate pretty easily, but I'm accustomed to regulated sights and sight pictures at that range, so it's a bit of mental excercise to change up like that. It's alright though, you basically are looking at the full target when you aim like this. I wonder if it's regulated for 25 meters? I'll have to try it out, but don't have a 25 meter range easily available to me. In any event, the old warhorse shoots so well, it's not such a big deal, just adds to it's personality if anything. I've owned a lot of handguns, both autos and revolvers, but there's something really special about this one, it's no wonder S&W has resurrected it. I started out wanting a newly made one, but could not find a dealer over here that had any or would order them; so I found this old one instead and couldn't be happier. I am deeply interested in history, particularly military history, so this just makes the deal even sweeter. It amazes me that a revolver ninety two years old could function so well.

I really like that long barrel on your "artillery model". Did you buy it like that or have it rebarreled? I like to look at all the photos of the other M1917s, and am thinking seriously one day about a S&W reblue as I don't intend on ever selling the M1917 and don't care so much about collectibility. I really like that reblue on Lefkiguy's stag handled M1917, wouldn't mind mine looking like that one day!

 

[M2MikeGolf]

Oops, sorry Otyeboteb, you had answered my question about the famed "artillery model" in an earlier post. I see barrels on Numrich for pretty reasonable prices...you thinking about rebarreling the bulger with issue length or another artillery length?

 

[punxsutawneypete]

[QUOTE
For the veteran 1917 owners, I have an ammuntion question. My M1917 seems to be shooting quite well; at ten meters with no rest other than a good two hand grip, I am getting 2" or so groups which I think to be pretty decent. There is an occasion wild flier, which I am not sure if "operator" induced or something else, but it actually seems to shoot tighter as it warms up, much like a good old M-1 Garand. However, it shoots high, a good 6" or so at ten meters. I am using 230 gr. FMJ Magtech ammuniton as it was all I had available to me at the time. I am thinking about trying to get some Federal 230 gr. "Personal Defesne" JHP (C45D) as it is really suited to a revolver (it's really a semi jacketed HP and Federal even recommends it for revolvers in .45 ACP). They also make this in 185 gr. I don't really intend on using this as "defensive" ammunition, but actually for finishing shots on game (I live in Germany, this is what "defense" ammunition is used for). My guess is that I should stick with the 230 gr. as I would assume the 185 gr. would shoot even higher. Anyone have experience with the ammunition or shooting high problem? I don't want to do any filing of rear sight on this revolver, and sending to S&W is out of the question since I am in Germany.

[/QUOTE]
Something that you might want to try is commercially loaded or reloaded ammunition with 200 grain lead semi-wadcutter bullets. It will probably shoot a little lower since the lighter bullet will be in the recoiling barrel a little less, and the lead will be easier on the bore. As an added benefit, it cuts a nice clean hole in a paper target. It sounds like it would be a good all around bullet for all of your needs.

 

[Packrattusnongratus]

An aside concerning the great orators like Churchill. I went to my Eagle Scout recognition dinner in the late sixties. I sat about three chairs away from H. Roe Bartle. The greatest orator I have seen and heard personally. They turned off the PA as it was unneccesary. He could be heard at the back of the great meeting hall in the Moila Shriner's Temple in St. Joseph Missouri. I didn't realize the value of it at the time but was amazed at the booming voice of the big man. He could arguably be the equal of Churchill in my mind. I certainly now wish to have recorded that speach. His history is entwined in that of Kansas City and the Boy Scouts in this part of the country. I hope I'm not too far off subject here. If so please correct me, I can start another thread. I placed this here as it was brought to mind by post #26. Packy

 

[M2MikeGolf]

Thanks Pete, sadly, reloading isn't an option for me, but will be in the future (hopefully). For the same reasons (I live in Germany; reloading requires a license, etc.), finding LRN or LSWC is difficult at best; the Germans like FMJs or SJSP, and sometimes HPs, but rarely full lead bullets. One of the other problems with reloading is that it is so expensive here, it ends up not being cost effective, so if you reload, it's because you want to, not because you want to and you save money. Factory ammuntion is pretty expensive too. I think I will be comfortable with adjusting my sight picture for point of aim, it's just takes some mental recalibration as my other handguns are dead on. Maybe the M1917 was calibrated for longer ranges (25 yards)?

 

[Catshooter]

M2,

Very nice that you've managed to get set up in Germany.

If you do find yourself wanting to load/cast your own, you might want to know that casting technology has been advanced tremendously in the last five or so years. The internet has proven invaluble in this.

As an example for you, my last season of shooting leveraction silhouette I shot my Winchester 94 in .38-55 exclusivley, putting better than 500 rounds through it. These are a powerful load, a 285 grain bullet at over 1750 fps. I didn't clean the weapon at all the whole year as it changes the point of impact a lot when I do.

So at the end of the year I set the rifle up in the vise to clean it. I pushed a cloth patch through, reversed it and did it again. Then once more, and the last side of the patch came out perfectly clean. Total of two patches used.

The patches were dry, by the way.

This level of cleaning effort is typical with all my firearms that I shoot my own cast in. Now that the causes of leading are known and thus preventable cleaning/shooting is so much more enjoyable. Cheaper too!


Cat

 

[M2MikeGolf]

Cat,

Great information about casting information in regards to lead bullets. I have all intentions of going back to re-loading some day. I think that my concern was driven by an hours worth of work on the throat of my barrel, but who knows, that could have been decades worth of buildup. It was hard to detect until I put LED lighting on it, then it showed up clearly, otherwise, I might have not noticed for some time. However, lead nosed bullets are difficult to find here, and you cannot legally shoot someone else's handloads in your firearm (!). The good news is that I may return to the states soon, and even if I don't will try to get the license for handloading. In the meantime, it's FMJ or SJHPs. I think I'm am going to try some 185 gr. loads just for for comparison, but I've always been a fan of the 230 gr. After all, the 1917s were produced with the idea of 230 gr. FMJ being used, so it can't be all that bad!

 

[Oyeboteb]

Oops, sorry Otyeboteb, you had answered my question about the famed "artillery model" in an earlier post. I see barrels on Numrich for pretty reasonable prices...you thinking about rebarreling the bulger with issue length or another artillery length?

I would like to re-Barrel it to be a 'Snubby'.

Was hoping to find an old already cut down Barrel, or, a Barrel with a bulge farther out, to cut down, so as not to waste a Good Barrel.

I will look in to the Numrich parts though, thanks for mentioning that!


Edit - read further...more to say now...

Re-Loading wise, .45 ACP is a joy, and of course you can explore a wide variety of Bullet types and power levels.

Unless needing huge amounts of Ammunition, a press, such as the old Lyman 'Tru-Line Jr' will work well, is easy and fun to use, and, would not usually cost much to obtain one.

There were Molds for making many kinds of .45 ACP Bullets, and, of course Lead is usually easy enough to find...or even to re-claim by gathering spent Jacketed Bullets at one's local Shooting Range.

Molds and Presses of all vintages are readily available on e-bay.


How curious that a License is required in Germany to do one's own re-Loading!


Are Powder and Primers especially expensive there?

 

[M2MikeGolf]

Everything here requires a license (and expense) regarding firearms and "explosives". Reloading is in the "explosives" category, and since it's firearms related, gets some double regulation. Also, everything, and I mean everything, is expensive here now. Wasn't always that way, sadly. I really would like to get back into reloading. However, I'll live back in the US eventually, so I'll just have to be patient for now.

By the way, I ordered some half moons, full moons and some standard issue grips from Numrich the other day, it all got here pretty fast. I don't want to wear those "original" (well, that's what was on it when I bought it!) gold medallions out since everyone says they're collectors stuff all on their own. Numrich also has frame parts, pins, screws, .455 cylinders and also barrels, so you may think about ordering one or two barrels; one to cut and one to keep. They are a bit expensive, though ($128) I would order a barrel, but you can't do that in Germany (!). The Germans consider barrels a firearm as much as a frame, crazy as it sounds.

I'm liking those period grips, and they are a bit thicker than my old gold medallions that came with my 1917; it now fits a bit better in my hand, and I don't have to feel like I'm wearing out those beautiful old civilian grips. Since they are really like what should be on it anyway, pretty happy about it and they were dirt cheap...about $40, but pretty good quality.

 

[Catshooter]

Nice looking grips you made, good job.

I think those medallion grips would come back with me to the states, were I you.


Cat

 

[M2MikeGolf]

I think those medallion grips would come back with me to the states, were I you

In these times of uncertainty, you could bank that happening and feel your money was well invested!