Lightest 38-Special Load Possible?

[snubbiefan]

I will never give-up on trying to get my wife to shoot the 38's I have. She carries a 327 MAG loaded with 32 S&W....it's almost a waste of good gun-metal to see her have to do that. I have a lightweight 38-special that is ideal for her as far as the ease of carry. Factory ammo is out of the question. I have loaded-down a 110-grain swc to 3-grains of Bullseye for my fooling-around load....but she is still not comfortable. I have to load-down 32-longs to around 1.7 grains to get close to making her happy.

I would love to take-over the 327 as my carry and load it like it was deigned to be loaded and let her pack the light 38....but I have to find a suitable load that will:

#1. Consistently get the slug clear of the barrel with the potential to do "some" damage.
#2. Come-up with a load in which she can stand the recoil in this light 38 revolver.

No...I refuse to go get her an automatic and she can't take the 22 or 22 MAG TP. Does anybody have any thoughts on a "least-load"? Maybe like 2-grains of Bullseye?

 

[OKFC05]

I think your wife is trying to tell you something but does not want to just come out and say it.

You're already down to the ridiculous on your handload.

 

[brucev]

Forgetaboutit. Really. She's got a gun. She will use it. It will work. It may or may not be ideal. But it will work. That is miles and miles ahead of her having a gun that she will not carry and use. Whoever she points it at are not going to stand there and ask her to describe the power, bullet type, etc. of the load in her revolver. They most likely will not notice or care about the bore size. They almost certainly will want to get of out Dodge. Very cool.

 

[Fishinfool]

Maybe a can of pepper spray....

 

[JohnnieB]

I would love to take-over the 327 as my carry and load it like it was deigned to be loaded and let her pack the light 38....but I have to find a suitable load that will:

#1. Consistently get the slug clear of the barrel with the potential to do "some" damage.
#2. Come-up with a load in which she can stand the recoil in this light 38 revolver.

Sir,
You are trying to push a chain up a red clay hill in a thunder storm.
It ain't gonna happen and you are likely to either fall on your face in the mud or get struck by lightening.

If you want a .327mag revolver so you can carry full power rounds in it, use the lightweight .38spl that neither of you apparently want as a trade-in.
Problem solved.

 

[snubbiefan]

I like brucev's idea the best. The little lady wants to shoot and she shoots the 617 very well. BUT...it's a bit too large to stick in her purse. She does just fine with that 327 down-loaded....so maybe I just need to leave her alone. I don't have any issues with the 38 lightweight and I don't plan to get rid of it.

I have gone about as far as I can with the trigger-pull reduction on these small frames and still guarantee ignition, so we have worked past that part. I realize that anything much below what I am loading now in 38-special is mostly just making noise, but I thought I'd seek a little advice anyway.

Pepper spray is out. She would rather make the BG bleed rather than cry, but I have considered hand-grenades.

I am appreciating all the comments folks.

 

[Jellybean]

It sounds as though even if you can load the .38 spls. down far enough for her it wouldn't be very different from the .32s she's shooting now. She must be very recoil sensative.

If you really want her to eventually pick up a .38 spl. you will have to find something that she will accept. If there is some reason why you'd want her to do this you might try getting some .38 short colt brass and start loading some very light loads with it.

 

[roughedgekid]

I have the same problem , My wife keeps the 327 by the bed but I loaded the 327's down a little with 4.5grs of unique. They still travel around 1000fps so thats pretty good. I got here a 357 to shot with me on the weekend and we shot 38sp out of it and she hits about as good as I do. I loaded them with 4.9 grs of unique behind a 158gr SWC and she hasnt complained about recoil and she is only 5 feet tall. I tryed loading some with 4.0 gr of unique but it was just to weak to shot all the time.

 

[TSQUARED]

You might want to try some light loads of trail Boss behind a 158 gr. lead bullet. The starting load on the Hodgdon website is very mild.

 

[HAGEN]

38 Loads

My wife developed the problem with shooting her 38 snubbies
after carrying them for years.
My answer was to Load her some Colt Shorts with Clays &
125Gr Bullets to shoot.
The Shorts took the Sting out of her Airweight J Frames and made her Little Colts a pleasure to shoot.
Do not let me misslead.
She never had a Issue with Carrying and staying Proficient with Defence Rounds in her revolvers.
Her Complaint was when she and the other wives were messing around with some targets.
The Shorts have become a Standard Inventory Item for me
to stay out of the Dog House.
My Old 2 Cents
Hagen

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Be careful with very light loads of fast-burning high-density powders like Bullseye. These leave a lot of empty space inside the case, and can result in failures to ignite the charge. The force of the primer can be enough to lodge the bullet in the forcing cone without igniting the powder.

 

[k22fan]

The only suggestion I have for dealing with your wife is to not try to talk her into an aluminum frame gun. Doing so defeats your goal of provideing the lowest recoiling revolver.

Suggesting a road to persue in your reloading quest is a lot more comfortable than my feeble attempt at marriage counciling. The now departed gun writer Dean Grinnell designed a button shapped or very short .38 wadcutter bullet. Hensley & Gibbs cataloged the mold. Grinnel wrote articles about useing them for very light loads and also loading 3 of them into .38 special and four into .357 mag cases. They weighed 60 gr. if I recall correctly. I thought it would be fun experimenting with one of the molds but never bought one. Unlike loading round balls, Grinnel got good accuracy. Grinnel was a prolific gun writer on reloading in the 1970s and early 80s who focused on reloading as a fun hobby rather than reloading for self defense or hunting but his four button .357 load had interesting potential as a very tight patterning "buck shot" load. One of H&G's molds would be hard to find but you could have a 148 gr. WC mold milled off then drill and tap its sprue plate hole deeper if it needed it. I wouldn't be suprised if a member has one of Grinnel's articles or can direct you to one.

 

[snubbiefan]

Information like this is very helpful. I do reload and I can make-up any round I want, but I am not a pro at it. I was looking for some information on how low to go and maybe 3-grains in that long case using non-magnum primers is about it. That load under a 110-grain slug is no wimp and I have shot it by the butt-load.....but I do fear going any lower than that. I sort of like the idea posted above using the colt cases. I suppose I could also trim-down some 38-special cases as well and reduce the void in the case for better ignition.

See....this is how it goes...some nut like me starts a thread like this and it gives us all something else to talk about.

I think it's mostly for my selfish reasons to try and finagle the 327 away from the wife, but she really does like the reduced carry weight of the 38 and I am not necessarily going to give-up....yet. But...as K22 alludes to, giving her the aluminum frame makes the recoil that much worse.

I am no marriage-counselor either and I have been trying it with the same woman for 43-years. She will win and get what she wants to shoot no matter how this turns out.

 

[oldRoger]

I think the lightest practical loads that I have seen in the .38 spl are with a 148gr HBWC, while the standard load is usually 2.7grs of Bullseye, I know people who have gone down to 2.4grs for rapid fire stages, we are talking 6-1/2” K-Frame barrels here.
The soft swaged bullets expand very well even at slow speeds.

I would not doubt that you can get the bullet clear of a 2” barrel at even lower loads. With the HBWC seated flush you reduce the power space considerably and 2.5-2.7 gr loads have been very reliable.
Basically I do not like Light Wt. J-Frames, I would rather lug the heavy frame around. The shooting experience is IMO in a different world.

 

[Jellybean]

I was looking for some information on how low to go and maybe 3-grains in that long case using non-magnum primers is about it. That load under a 110-grain slug is no wimp and I have shot it by the butt-load.....but I do fear going any lower than that. I sort of like the idea posted above using the colt cases. I suppose I could also trim-down some 38-special cases as well and reduce the void in the case for better ignition.

You can actually go pretty low with Bullseye but you will want to do specific experimenting with your own firearms as they will make a big difference in the results. I have a handloading manual where the author went as low as .55 grs of Bullseye under a 146 gr. wadcutter out of a 2" snub, although he did set the charge at .75 grs. as a safety measure to make sure they all left the barrel.

The real danger in working with extremely light loads of BE, or other fast powders, is double charging a case. I changed my whole routine because of loading a lot of reduced loads and I liked it so much that I do it for all loading on a single stage press.

 

[acl864]

Suggesting a road to persue in your reloading quest is a lot more comfortable than my feeble attempt at marriage counciling. The now departed gun writer Dean Grinnell designed a button shapped or very short .38 wadcutter bullet. Hensley & Gibbs cataloged the mold. Grinnel wrote articles about useing them for very light loads and also loading 3 of them into .38 special and four into .357 mag cases. They weighed 60 gr. if I recall correctly. I thought it would be fun experimenting with one of the molds but never bought one. Unlike loading round balls, Grinnel got good accuracy. Grinnel was a prolific gun writer on reloading in the 1970s and early 80s who focused on reloading as a fun hobby rather than reloading for self defense or hunting but his four button .357 load had interesting potential as a very tight patterning "buck shot" load. One of H&G's molds would be hard to find but you could have a 148 gr. WC mold milled off then drill and tap its sprue plate hole deeper if it needed it. I wouldn't be suprised if a member has one of Grinnel's articles or can direct you to one.

Here's a link to a group buy over at castboolits.com for a WC similar to what k22fan is talking about.

NOE .360 155Gr. WC Re-Run - Cast Boolits

I'd like to get in on this one but I'm already in line for a 160 gr. double crimp groove HP SWC with GC mold on another pending group buy and my budget is limited.

 

[RWJ]

Perhaps this mold?

If you can find an old Lyman 358101 mould at a gun show, it casts a 75 grain .38 wadcutter that's in the same ballpark, velocity-wise, as that .32. It does offer a slightly larger permanent wound channel, though.

Lyman 45th edition Reloading Handbook for the #358101 75gr bullet.
Powder Start/grs. FPS Max/grs. FPS
Bullseye 2.0 607 3.0 788
Unique 3.0 577 5.0 842
SR7625 3.0 469 4.0 570

 

[OFT II]

If you get the muzzle velocity too low that 38 slug will wallow through the air like a BB out of a Daisy air rifle and you won't see much penentration, especially if the slug has to penetrate much clothing or bone. Your frau might be better armed with a 22 kit gun loaded with CCI Stingers than a 38 with little penetration.

 

[k22fan]

Here's a link to a group buy over at castboolits.com for a WC similar to what k22fan is talking about.

NOE .360 155Gr. WC Re-Run - Cast Boolits

I'd like to get in on this one but I'm already in line for a 160 gr. double crimp groove HP SWC with GC mold on another pending group buy and my budget is limited.

Before I clicked on the link it looked like a group buy for 155 gr. WC molds but they're also making molds for two shorter length WCs, 100 gr. and 75 gr. Getting in on their group buy probably would be a lot quicker way to get a short WC mold than hunting down an old one.

 

[snubbiefan]

Buying a mold won't be a problem. I have a neighbor that is a religious range-shooter. One a week we get together and cast bullets....I get all I want for free, but I don't shoot nearly as much, or as often as he does. I reload for around 7-8 cents a round (powder and primers). That's down in cheap 22LR territory and I do my re-loading one round at a time so I can really pay attention to detail.


FOLKS....I really appreciate the discussion we have had here on this thread. If I never receive another post.....I will be extremely happy that enough interest was generated to provide me with lots of good ideas and places to start.

I appreciate all of it!