Lil' Gun Powder Question

[The Preacher]

I have a couple of lbs. of Lil' Gun that once upon a time I used in a 22 Hornet. The Hornet went down the road some time ago and I have the powder left. In this day and age no powder is expendable so...

My question is using it in 357 Magnum and 38 Special loads. I know I can use it in the 357 for "full house" loads but I'm looking for somewhat reduced loads in the 357 (Maybe 1100-1200 fps) and +P loads in a 38 Special case. I'd be using 158 gr. LSWC's or Hornady 158 gr. jacketed bullets. I realize the powder isn't especially applicable in a 38 Special case and don't know if I can reduce it somewhat in 357 Magnum loads but was wondering if anyone has used Lil' Gun in this way. Thanks.

The Preacher

 

[gwpercle]

Hodgdon shows data for 357 magnum , 158 gr. HDY-XTP , Lil' Gun powder starting load : 16.0 grs. @ 1504 fps ....
max load 18.0 grs. @ 1577 fps .

No loads shown on hodgdon's load data site for 38 Special or 38 Special +P loads .
Not a whole lotta data out there but don't give up the search , some one has done it and these days you sometimes have to use what you got and make do .
I see its a slower powder , on Western's Burn Rate Chart it's on the line right below 2400 and on the line right above H110 ... It's on the same line as : Enforcer , SR-4759 , and N-110 ... and that's it !

I wish I could help more but , except for 2400, I have never used any of the powders listed .
Good luck in data search,
Gary

 

[smithra_66]

I don't think there will be any safety issues, but Lil' Gun is best at higher pressure, regardless of the case.

You'll see poor standard deviations and dirty burn with unburnt powder when you keep the pressures considerably below full house.

Your best bet for what you're looking to do would be something like Unique, or the many other powders out there with similar burn rates.

 

[Bastogne71]

LilGun is a very slow burning powder similar in applications to H-110 or AA-9 and is best used with heavy jacketed bullets at higher velocities. As a general rule, these powders should not be reduced from maximum more than 10%. In my library, there aren’t any loads for 38 Special and only full power loads for 140 gr and heavier jacketed bullets for 357 magnum.

I’ve found that LilGun is a very good powder for magnum loads giving me high velocities and excellent accuracy.

Sorry but I don’t think that you can achieve your goals with LilGun.

 

[mikerjf]

This just from reading, not personal experience: Lil Gun seems to produce blistering hi-end loads, but has a reputation for "heating guns up" quickly and also draws comments about forcing cone erosion in revolvers.

The impression I came away with was, this is a better rifle powder than handgun. 357 carbine?

 

[johngalt]

A few years back there was a lot of discussion about forcing cone erosion being a lot worse than with other powders. I've never personally used it, so can't confirm.

 

[rosewood]

It works well in 300 BLK also and was designed for the .410.

I do not think it's burn rate will be conducive for 38 spcl loads.

Rosewood

 

[OKFC05]

It works well in 300 BLK also and was designed for the .410.
Rosewood

I won a can at a shoot, and the only load I found good was .410 shotgun. It is way too slow for .38 or reduced .357.

 

[The Preacher]

I don't think there will be any safety issues, but Lil' Gun is best at higher pressure, regardless of the case.

You'll see poor standard deviations and dirty burn with unburnt powder when you keep the pressures considerably below full house.

Your best bet for what you're looking to do would be something like Unique, or the many other powders out there with similar burn rates.

Yep. I'm with you on Unique and have A-2400 also (which I usually load in the 357 and 38 Special) Just trying to find a use for the Lil' Gun without all the blast of full house 357 Magnum loads. Appreciate your thoughts.

The Preacher

 

[smithra_66]

Yep. I'm with you on Unique and have A-2400 also (which I usually load in the 357 and 38 Special) Just trying to find a use for the Lil' Gun without all the blast of full house 357 Magnum loads. Appreciate your thoughts.

The Preacher

Sounds like you need to buy a nice .410 shotgun or 22 Hornet, or 44 mag!

 

[dla]

In my use of LilGun in 44mag I've found it slightly slower than w296/h110. It does heat things up faster due to higher nitro content. Good powder for high end loads. Not a powder for put-put 38spl, but less likely to squib than h110/w296.

 

[gwpercle]

Sounds like you need to buy a nice .410 shotgun or 22 Hornet, or 44 mag!

Don't forget the red-headed step child of the gun world ...
The Remington 41 Magnum !

If Rodney Dangerfield was a shooter ... it would be his first choice ...They both don't get no respect !
Gary

 

[fordson]

I use Lil’ Gun exclusively in 38 Super loads using130/135 jacketed bullets. I’m pushing velocity at around 1280fps. This doesn’t address your question directly but it is a good powder for from which I get consistent results.

 

[Sevens]

Testing, experience and anecdotal data from different random gun folks across the internet has it’s place in the world. It isn’t as worthless as some seem to think, but it’s value must be interpreted. It is difficult for all (or most) to agree on how we separate the wheat from the chaff.

With that said, I will submit a few facts.

1) it is nearly universally agreed that almost all gun makers specifically recommend against handloading for their firearms.

2) Freedom Arms is arguably the finest single action revolver maker of note and Freedom not only condones handloading, but they sell dies and components and they offer load data and tips also. If you buy one of their guns, they expect you to handload for it and they offer support to do exactly that.

3) Freedom Arms shows zero loads built with Lil’Gun powder on their site.

4) No less than the President of the company who is the son of the co-founder has posted on gun forums about the damage they’ve seen with Lil’Gun powder, and the tests they conducted on Freedom revolvers to pin down exactly the problem associated with this powder specifically. Freedom was seeing damage to their revolvers and tracing it back to precisely this powder.

I see nothing on the Freedom website currently that warns against the use of Lil’Gun, which I find quite curious. I would like to send them an e-mail and ask perhaps why they don’t publish a specific warning against it.

Because of the numerous discussions and especially the posts written directly by Bob Baker, I sold off the 7-1/2 pounds of Lil’Gun that I had bought years ago with full disclosure to my buyer. I don’t care to use this powder again.

I would suggest that this powder be avoided in revolvers, but more so, I would suggest doing some research and forming your opinions on Lil’Gun based on that. My anecdotal evidence? I was able to attain very high velocity in .357 Magnum with this powder, but I didn’t make much ammo with it, and now I won’t ever again.

 

[Oldfrt]

I only use Lil Gun in my 12.7 x 42's, (50 Beuwulf) one of the few powders with load data for them, seems to be reasonably clean for that.

 

[biku324]

My 'go-to' 357 loads are 13.0 grains of 2400 and 16.2 grains of Lil Gun, both under 158 JHP, JSP, or LSWC. They print to the same POI out to 75 yards.

I occasionally load 18.0 grains behind a 158 grain JSP for a Ruger 77/357 carbine, but while safe in my wife's 4" barreled revolver, it is actively unpleasant to shoot because of ferocious muzzle blast. I saw some gun writer claiming 20.0 grains was safe with 158 grain loads, but never tried it.

 

[rosewood]

I only use Lil Gun in my 12.7 x 42's, (50 Beuwulf) one of the few powders with load data for them, seems to be reasonably clean for that.

They also list it for 350 Legend. It does provide top velocity in 300 BLK, more so than any other powder.

Rosewood

 

[Patrick L]

You could sell it, or more likely trade it for something a bit more suitable?

 

[rosewood]

My 'go-to' 357 loads are 13.0 grains of 2400 and 16.2 grains of Lil Gun, both under 158 JHP, JSP, or LSWC. They print to the same POI out to 75 yards.

I occasionally load 18.0 grains behind a 158 grain JSP for a Ruger 77/357 carbine, but while safe in my wife's 4" barreled revolver, it is actively unpleasant to shoot because of ferocious muzzle blast. I saw some gun writer claiming 20.0 grains was safe with 158 grain loads, but never tried it.

I tried 21 grains of Lil'Gun in the 300 BLK in a 7.5" barrel. The muzzle blast looked like a flame thrower at night. I videoed and compared different powders to see what differences they made. IMR4227 was much more tolerable for sure. Tried the same Lil'gun load in a 10.5" barrel and it was quite tame. I swapped out my barrel to reduce the blast and to get a bit more velocity. Now I don't (need to) wear my sunglasses at night.

I can only imagine what 18.0 grains would look like in a 4" barrel.

Rosewood

 

[biku324]

It finishes off any night vision BUT you see everything clearly and in color for part of a second!