Loading .45ACP with H&G 69 type SWC

[Trooperdan]

I just tried my first 25 rds with this bullet, a 200 gr SWC with a profile like the HG&G # 68. I left just about 1/32" of lead exposed, loaded over 4.8 gr Titegroup. My OAL was 1.270. I didn't do a plunk test 'cause I was too darned lazy to break my 1911 down!
About 1 in 5 was failing to go into battery and the ejected round should evidence of contact on the narrow ledge of lead I left. This is in a Kart barrel by the way.
Now to my question: do you seat this type of bullet so the mouth of the case is flush with the shoulder? The will be my next test anyway... and I'll do the plunk test this time too!

 

[Jamie]

What crimp are you using? I had a very similar issue with my Fusion, I was loading Bayou Bullets 200gr SWC, .470" crimp and above, no bueno. Once I crimped .469-.468", no more issues.

 

[Fishinfool]

Sounds like that Kart Barrel has a tight, match chamber. I usually can get away with seating a bullet like that with a little bullet shoulder showing, and still have it chamber.

That said, let your gun tell you what it wants. I would try seating so the bullet shoulder is flush with the sides of the case, along with just enough crimp to remove the case mouth flair. I know guys who load for revolvers who run a roll crimp over the bullets shoulder, but that would not work in a 1911 that headspaces off the case mouth.

Larry

 

[oink]

I've always seated pretty much even with the shoulder with just a smidge of lead shoulder exposed. I've shot many without a problem. I've always used 231 because that's what I have. You obviously need to do the plunk test.

 

[Spokes]

oink gave you excellent advice...

 

[old&slow]

What crimp are you using? I had a very similar issue with my Fusion, I was loading Bayou Bullets 200gr SWC, .470" crimp and above, no bueno. Once I crimped .469-.468", no more issues.

Similar problem many years ago.. Went from a .471 crimp to a .469 crimp ,, seemed to solve the problem...
( Don't remember if it was the Kart barrel or the Wilson barrel 1911. )

 

[rockquarry]

I've had good luck not crimping quite to .469"; .470" or .471"has been fine in all my barrels, but this will vary slightly from one barrel to another. As for the "plunk" test, the fit doesn't need to be a real loose plunk. A very slight resistance is okay and preferable in my opinion. This is easier to "feel" than to describe.

Play with crimp and seating depth. You'll get it where it is perfect for your gun(s). It's worth the effort.

In the '60s many shooters roll crimped .45 ACP loads, something pretty much unheard of these days. The old Star loader .45 ACP loader I used to have came equipped with a roll crimp die. Worked fine, perhaps as well as the Redding taper crimped loads I use now.

 

[reddog81]

1.24 or 1.25 should still leave some of the lead shoulder exposed. 1.27 is SAAMI max for 45 ACP, I believe. That doesn't mean all bullets can be seated to 1.27. That means a few bullet styles can be seated to 1.27. H&G 68 should be 1.24 to 1.25 and maybe up to 1.26.

Seating a bullet at 1.24 vs 1.27 in 45 ACP won't make any noticeable pressure difference assuming you aren't using a powder like Blue Dot or something else that completely fills up the case.

 

[Enigma]

A lot of .45ACP barrels have essentially no throat cut at the end of the chamber, and can benefit from having this remedied. The Bar-Sto barrel in one of my 1911s suffered from this issue, but once corrected, has been without problem. If you're interested, I can recommend someone to throat your chamber who is skilled, reliable, has fast turnaround, and doesn't charge exorbitant prices. PM me if interested.

 

[Forrest r]

1.250" has been the gold standard for decades with the h&g 68/69

A 3/1000th crimp (.469") has been the gold standard for decades in the 45acp's.

Those bullets pictured above with the .469" crimp tested @ 50ft. Not a hand picked/cherry picked target by any means. Nothing more then the test target used that day to test loads with.

Kart bbl.'s do not have tight/small chambers, they are known for not having throats cut in them. The lack of a throat is better for rn/fmj style bullets. Those types of bullets will center better in bbl.'s with no throats. A bbl with no throat.

The same bbl with a throat cut in it.

As you can see the bbl with no throat has the lands closer to the chamber. The lands are what grabs/holds/aligns the rn/fmj's. A swc has a shoulder & that shoulder is what aligns the bullet in the bore. No throat ='s less room for play.

I guess if the op wasn't so "lazy" (his words not mine) and did a simple plunk test he would of found out what oal to set the bullets at.

On a side note:
1 of the most mis-understood & mis-quoted things on the internet it about crimping reloads for semi-auto's. This thread is no different, in +/- 10 posts there's the just enough crimp to remove the flare and the "headspaces off the case mouth". As you can see from the posts, just removing the flare wasn't the greatest advice and that a 3/100th's (.469") crimp ended a lot of feeding issues. I won't even go into how the .469" crimp aids in a complete/consistent powder burn & consistency ='s accuracy. The too much crimp/headspace on case mouth thing. A picture of a fully throated 9mm bbl for a 1911.

Same bbl with a 6/1000th's crimp on a .750" case (.374").

Same bbl with a 15/1000th's crimp (.365") on a case. The .365" crimp shrank the case to .748".

The 2 cases side by side

Yup, to much crimp is no good because the reload headspaces on the case mouth!!!!
Well there's a 15/1000th's crimp and the case still headspaces.

 

[stu1ritter]

I've been loading the H&G68 for years and years but I still randomly check a few as I'm loading using the Wilson gauge. Saves a lot of trouble for not much money and I don't have to take any pistols apart.

L.E. Wilson Max Cartridge Ga 45 ACP - MPN: PMG-45A

Stu

 

[M29since14]

Everything Forrest r said - exactly. Over the years, proper loading of the #68 bullet has been refined and he has hit the important stuff, as I understand it and use it. I shoot for a 0.470 taper crimp using my Dillon die, and 1.250" cartridge length. Just about any .45 I pick up will not only function properly but also shoot very well, if not better than with anything else. My favorite powders are 231 and Bullseye. If your 1911 will not feed and shoot such cartridges it is a odd duck, and probably needs shipped off to a 1911 pistolsmith.

 

[stansdds]

I had a Bar-Sto "drop-in" barrel that did the same thing. The barrel had a minimum spec dimension chamber and throat. Since it was an IPSC/USPSA pistol and 1 inch groups at 50 yards was not essential, I had the chamber and throat finish reamed to provide a little more clearance. Doing that allowed my LSWC loads to chamber and extract with 100% reliability. I expect that Kart barrel has a minimum spec chamber and throat.

 

[D Brown]

200 GR H&G 68 LSWC

This is how I've loaded multiple thousands of these with stellar results. 1.254" Overall Length. There will be approximately .032" of Bullet Shank exposed above the Cartridge Case.

By the way, in my experience, any time you load to an overall cartridge length exceeding 1.265" you will experience feeding issues either at the feed ramp or in the magazine.

 

[gwpercle]

Back in the dark ages I was instructed to leave "the thickness of your thumbnail " exposed ...which isn't very much but this amount has functioned in a Colt Gold Cup , Commander , Star Model PS and my current AMT Hardballer.
Won a few trophies with that bullet over 5.2 grains of Unique back then.
Gary

 

[fredj338]

Imo, probably a bit too long. I load the same bullet 1.260" to fit all my 1911, including a Match Barsto. Crimp is important. My guns do fine at 0.470" Much more than tha, mixed brass, 0.452" bullet, you can start resizing the bullet in the case.

 

[GCF]

I just tried my first 25 rds with this bullet, a 200 gr SWC with a profile like the HG&G # 68. I left just about 1/32" of lead exposed, loaded over 4.8 gr Titegroup. My OAL was 1.270. I didn't do a plunk test 'cause I was too darned lazy to break my 1911 down!
About 1 in 5 was failing to go into battery and the ejected round should evidence of contact on the narrow ledge of lead I left. This is in a Kart barrel by the way.
Now to my question: do you seat this type of bullet so the mouth of the case is flush with the shoulder? The will be my next test anyway... and I'll do the plunk test this time too!

Couple of thoughts. First, you might check the OAL - of your sized brass. Like many, I've been known to pickup range brass, that looks decent. Even though I try to stick w/ WW brass, I have noted quite a bit of difference in OAL - certainly enough to make a difference between a "thumbnail", & flush.

Nobody likes to spend time measuring .45acp brass, but it can make a difference. I generally go through my brass, weed out those over max (& under min), then pick out 5 or 6 of average length to set my seating depth, & crimp.

Seat my Dardas 200LSWC-BB (H&G clone) to 1.245", w/ a .470" crimp.

My Kart barrel needed to have the throat adjusted for .452" LSWC bullets, as well. Please see the excellent pics in Post #10, for reference.

Last thing, although Kart barrel chambers (mine at least) may not be officially under size, they are definitely on the snug side. Rounds plunk in my factory Colt barrels, & pretty much slip fit to flush - in my Kart.