Loading jacketed bullets - tip for some

[38SPL HV]

I’ve been reloading cast and lead bullets for my revolvers since Nixon was President. Rarely did I reload jacketed projectiles for handguns.

I’ve been reloading recently 38 Spl +P 110 gr JHPs (Winchester) and with this lighter bullet was getting unacceptable wider extremes…could even detect sound differences…it was that ridiculous. Dumb arse me I felt!

I had a rarely used 38 Spl Lee Carbide Undersizing Die. I decided to run my fired cases through this die so I could obtain better neck tension on these light 110 gr bullets. I also stopped belling the cases slightly as I do when loading cast to prevent shaving. I seat and crimp in two different steps (I use a regular Lee die for this, not factory carbide crimp one).

Didn’t have time to put them through the chronograph but did test fire 20 of them and all sounded and felt consistent with good umph (6.7 grs Power Pistol), and rolled an empty gallon plastic jug consistently. Bet they’ll register well over the chronograph…tests forthcoming.

Bottom line, if using lighter 110 gr JHPs or even 125 gr plated bullets I suggest investing in a Lee Carbide Undersizing Die to ensure


——————

Forrestr:
10:18PM Dec 9 (Pacific STd Time)

Here’s pic of new Lee expander plug .360x.355 (same as Lyman M)

 

[stansdds]

That, or shorten the expander plug so that it will expand to a depth barely sufficient for seating the very short 110 grain bullets.

 

[gwpercle]

That, or shorten the expander plug so that it will expand to a depth barely sufficient for seating the very short 110 grain bullets.

Good Tip ... This is how I do it also and it woirks just fine .
Save the cost of an extra die .

Always more than one way to skin a handloading cat !
Gary

 

[yeti]

I have also found (EGW, made by LEE) U-dies useful for .38 and 9mm jacketed loads.
My 9mm mixed range brass has more consistent tension and seating. Very handy tool to have for some jacketed bullets.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Never had a problem with a properly adjusted LEE Factory Crimp Die of either style...

Cheers!

 

[Forrest r]

This is the perfect storm for lee reloading dies. A bullet that has very little actual bullet body in the case to be held by neck tension.

So far in this thread there's been 2 work-a-rounds listed:
Size the heck out of the cases
Re-size everything

Why not simply go to the actual root of the issue and fix it?

Lee expander dies flat out suck!!!! I love their sizing dies & taper crimp dies. I bought aftermarket lee sizing dies to go with my 2 rcbs (1 for 38spl/1 for 357mag) 38spl/357mag reloading dies. I also bought a sizing die for my 44spl/lyman set & hornady 44mag set. Their expander dies are cone shaped. When reloading short for caliber bullets (110gr in 38spl cases) you're getting down to the bare minimum of hold with neck tension. With a .357" bullet you want at least a .357" seating depth of the bullets body for neck tension. The lee expander button is tapered. It has to expand deep enough into the case to allow the bullet to seat. Some call it a flare, but with the lee design it's simply a strait opening at an angle (no flare). The end result is an over expanded case by the case mouth and angles down until you get to the properly expanded case diameter (+/- 3/1000th's for neck tension). Then the angled expansion keeps going until it's undersized/ends. Leaving the bullet to act as a bulldozer plowing into the un-expanded case.

This is why using a die to size the case smaller works with this short bodied bullet. You're getting the same spring back from the bulldozer/bullets being jammed into the unsized case. But the case diameter is now smaller increasing holding power/neck tension.

Same goes for the factory crimp die. It's simply re-sizing the case smaller to get neck tension.

A factory lee expander button next to a expander button that's actually designed to properly expand the case for any bullet of the same diameter.

It's strait sides expand the case evenly and has a step that actually flares the case mouth to seat a bullet.

The end result is the correct case expansion for proper neck tension that starts bellow the flare and continues to the bullets base (short/long doesn't matter)

Some say the crimp is meaningless and doesn't affect accuracy. Myself, I know better. I used to cast different wc's/hbwc's for the 38spl's & 357mags. Here's the last ones I cast before selling 3 of the molds (thinning the herd)

The bullet on the left is a H&G #41 110gr button nosed wc. Bought a nib 686 and was testing loads in it. Decided to use that bullet in 357mag cases. Was only doing testing @ 50ft and kept getting junk like this for 6-shot groups.

I tested 38spl loads earlier and was getting 6-shot groups @ 50ft like this: 2 different bullets/2 different powders/3 different loads

Took a hard look at the 357mag brass I was using. Turns out I beat that brass to death. Tons of small splits on the case mouths, some work hardened while other's were 1x or 2x fired. Ended up sorting through the used 357mag brass and scrapped 90%+ of it. Re-tested the sorted brass and shot bugholes.

Consistency ='s accuracy. Consistent neck tension/consistent crimp will show up on targets.

 

[38SPL HV]

Forrestr, always appreciate your thoughtful and detailed responses. You definitely earned a PhD in reloading my friend! I’m always learning even at my age thanks to you and others here, thank you!

I liked your quote here which confirms my workaround fix to the lighter bullet problem:

“This is why using a die to size the case smaller works with this short bodied bullet. You're getting the same spring back from the bulldozer/bullets being jammed into the unsized case. But the case diameter is now smaller increasing holding power/neck tension.”

I have a Lyman M die which I reserve for cast bullets…I may try this for these lighter bullets. However, I was getting inconsistencies with the lighter bullets as I mentioned using a similar Redding Premium expander die…

 

[Yendor357]

38, if you can judge your extreme spreads and standard deviation by sound and feel, you’re better than I am. Feel and sound is not a standard unit of measure.

Get a Garmin. They cost $600. It takes about 15 seconds to set up. It records real, actual numbers.

 

[38SPL HV]

38, if you can judge your extreme spreads and standard deviation by sound and feel, you’re better than I am. Feel and sound is not a standard unit of measure.

Get a Garmin. They cost $600. It takes about 15 seconds to set up. It records real, actual numbers.

Yonder, I’ve been chronographing as long as most are old around here. Please reread my initial post. But thanks for your post regardless.

 

[Forrest r]

Forrestr, always appreciate your thoughtful and detailed responses. You definitely earned a PhD in reloading my friend! I’m always learning even at my age thanks to you and others here, thank you!

I liked your quote here which confirms my workaround fix to the lighter bullet problem:

“This is why using a die to size the case smaller works with this short bodied bullet. You're getting the same spring back from the bulldozer/bullets being jammed into the unsized case. But the case diameter is now smaller increasing holding power/neck tension.”

I have a Lyman M die which I reserve for cast bullets…I may try this for these lighter bullets. However, I was getting inconsistencies with the lighter bullets as I mentioned using a similar Redding Premium expander die…

Don't know about all that.

Thank you for posting a picture of the "new" lee expander. Something doesn't sound correct (.360"-.355"). It should be .358"-.354" for jacketed bullets.

 

[38SPL HV]

Don't know about all that.

Thank you for posting a picture of the "new" lee expander. Something doesn't sound correct (.360"-.355"). It should be .358"-.354" for jacketed bullets.

…who knows about Lee nowadays…I just purchased a NOE plug .358x.354 moments ago…

Cast/lead bullets are so much easier…

 

[38SPL HV]

…I finally took my calipers to check the Winchester 110 gr JHP ‘s noted to be .357. NONE (20 checked) measured .357…most were .356 and few .355! There’s partially the problem. Not only that the cannelures position differed with many bullets. What happened to quality control with Winchester…