Lobo Holster, Avenger VS. Pancake

[fox45]

Having a hard time making up my mind on a Lobo holster for my 625, 3". I'm looking at the enhanced version on these. Anyone out there with experience with both, how do they differ in carry, and pull?
Here's the little beast that needs the new pants.

 

[Harrison]

I have his enhanced avenger for a 3" L frame and another one for a M&P9. Love both of them. They work for me.

 

[GoodMornin]

I find the standard SL-1 only slightly more comfortable than the enhanced, but they are both great. The cordovan brown looks the best.

 

[galena]

I have two of Ray's Enhanced Avengers for a 3" and 4" K frame. I have an original Roy Baker Pancake for a 3" K frame. I find that the Lobo holsters carry tighter against my belt and body. The Baker pancake tends to pull away, of course, it is older and the leather may have stretched a bit. However, I do prefer the Lobo Avengers. JMHO

 

[stu1ritter]

I have a pair of Ray's enhanced pancakes, one for my Mod. 37 and one for my Mod. 60-15 with 3" barrel. Both carry extremely flat against the body and at times you forget they are there. I might try something else at some later date but the two enhanced pancakes I have are really great.
Stu

 

[LoboGunLeather]

The Enhanced Pancake model and the Enhanced Avenger model are made in two entirely different ways.

Pancake-style holsters are made with an inner and outer panel, joined together by stitching fore-and-aft of the weapon, with belt attachment points located fore-and-aft. This (1) spreads the weight over a greater area on the belt, (2) allows belt tensioning to pull the holstered weapon into the body and constantly compress the holster "pocket" around the weapon, and (3) reduces the profile of the holster weapon with a smooth outer shell over which the cover garment may move easily. The Enhanced Pancake model moves beyond the traditional pancake design by utilizing a third layer of leather throughout the belt attachment points (welted-seam) thus increasing strength and rigidity of the finished holster, allowing for tunnel-style belt loops for improved concealability, and providing a natural sight track.

The Avenger-style holsters (originally based on Bruce Nelson's "Professional" model) is of envelope-style construction. A single piece of leather wraps around the weapon, joined behind the trigger guard to form a belt attachment point, and a second belt attachment point installed on the back side of the holster. The rear belt attachment point supports the weight, while the attachment point behind the trigger guard serves to pull the grip-frame into the body.

With most handguns these two holster designs will ride at similar heights on the belt. The Enhanced Pancake model can be counted on to provide the best possible concealability, while the Enhanced Avenger model allows for better accessibility (particularly ease of reholstering).

A choice between the two will depend primarily on your intended uses. Need best comfort and concealment? Go with the Enhanced Pancake. Need enhanced accessibility, ease of draw and reholstering? Go with the Enhanced Avenger.

Best regards.

 

[Dave T]

Kudo's to Ray for giving Bruce Nelson the credit for the original concept behind the Avenger. Very few holster makers step up and do this. I knew Nelson personally and he was at times annoyed to see others take his ideas and claim them as their own. Another example was his Summer Special IWB holster. A version of this is made by almost everyone but Nelson is seldom credited for the original.

Dave

 

[BobR1]

I am glad Ray took the time to go into detail, and explain the differences in the two models. I need to order a couple more of his holsters. The one for my 4" 686-5 SSR gun will get an Avenger. Access and Reholstering are at the top of the list. The 4" is a hair long to conceal. If I wear a longer cover garment the slightly less body hugging ability of the Avenger will not matter.
I also need a holster for my new Barbecue Gun an as New 15-4 Snub with a new set of Kim Ahrends Square Butt Finger Groove, Boot Grips in Cordia, with Tung Oil Finish. I will need to do some thinking about the holster for this one. It will probably never be on my Daily Concealed Carry Rotation.

I have I believe a single Model 1 Pancake and probably 8 or so Enhanced Pancakes of Rays. Every one a Keeper. I also carry my 1911 in a Rafter S Avenger in Black Shark. For a 1911 I really like the Avenger Style. Revolvers carry well in the Enhanced Pancake. I have added Inner Hammer Shield to all of mine, a $5 option.

Bob

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Kudo's to Ray for giving Bruce Nelson the credit for the original concept behind the Avenger. Very few holster makers step up and do this. I knew Nelson personally and he was at times annoyed to see others take his ideas and claim them as their own. Another example was his Summer Special IWB holster. A version of this is made by almost everyone but Nelson is seldom credited for the original.

Dave

Dave: My website has been up and running for several years now, and it has always contained information acknowledging the origins of several holster designs (Bruce Nelson's "Professional" model, Roy Baker's original "Pancake" design, Tom Threepersons' holster made by S.D. Myres Saddlery Company, and others). On the home page I have also included an advisement to the effect that I will not copy the work of others (LOTS of people want "knock-offs" of name brand, patented, and copyrighted products made, but I refuse to do it).

My work on the Enhanced Pancake design and Enhanced Avenger model have, in my opinion, built upon earlier designs and provided useful improvements in certain aspects. I think of my products as my individual interpretations of these classic designs, rather than as something entirely new or unique. I have always made a point of giving credit to the originators of the concepts involved.

My work on recreating the Classic Tom Threepersons' model was an undisguised duplication of the original work done by "Tio Sam" Myres for the legendary Texas lawman, Mr. Tom Threepersons, in about 1920. In addition to recreating the original holster design I retained a very talented carving artist to recreate the original hand carving of old Tom's original holster, which has been out of production since S.D. Myres ceased operation (although many, many other holster makers have followed Myres' lead with that design over the last 90-plus years). This was as much a labor of love as a business venture; after paying today's costs for the artistry involved in hand carving there really isn't much profit in these, compared to other regular production items.

People started wrapping their weapons in leather and hanging them from their bodies many thousands of years ago. Nothing much new has really occurred, but there have been a few improvements made in design and technique, which is all I have ever tried to claim for myself.

Best regards.

 

[fox45]

thanks to all that posted here, especially Ray. I carry commander size 1911s most of the time, IWB. The revolver, this size anyway, will be new for me. I figure with the cylinder it may need to ride outside, but I'd still like to let my shirt tail cover it. "A choice between the two will depend primarily on your intended uses. Need best comfort and concealment? Go with the Enhanced Pancake. Need enhanced accessibility, ease of draw and reholstering? Go with the Enhanced Avenger." this helped a lot Ray. your pancake isn't as big as some, the enhanced seems even smaller profile. Still thinking on it, but it sounds like I might need both ; )

(born and raised in the Springs, BTW)

 

[jrw113]

I can only comment on Lobo's Enhanced Pancake for a 3 inch N Frame. Mine has the smooth leather lining with the inner side hammer guard. It makes my 629 easy to carry all day.

 

[Poohgyrr]

For what it is worth, I have Ray's regular Pancakes (with thumb breaks)for my 2 1/2" M66, and current duty P220. That holster model does well for me and I like it quite a bit. I also have the Enhanced Pancake for my old duty 5906, and I like this holster even more - well worth the money.

These holsters have thumb breaks - which work well enough that I will likely just add a thumb break to future orders.

I prefer the Enhanced Pancake to the Avenger style (for my Hi Powers, not Ray's but from another maker, and also well made) - the Avenger I have doesn't hold the pistol in as tight and I like to feel the pistol is still where it is supposed to be.

 

[DevilDog72]

I have 2 Lobo holsters, an enhanced pancake for my mgl.19 and an enhanced avenger for my 1911 commander. They are different in every way. The pancake is a great CC rig, it keeps the weapon high and very tight to the waist. I can carry my revolver under an untucked shirt without any concerns. With the Avenger style the weapon is not pulled in tight to the body. It carries the weight of the 1911 with comfort and allows a really great draw and grip of the pistol. It however is harder to conceal. I like both very much and use them in differ ways.

 

[AKAOV1MAN]

I have a bunch of Lobo Holsters. I just ordered some more. Eventually my holster box will contains almost only Lobos.
The enhanced Avenger is just about the most useful holster available. I also have 2 full flap holsters for field guns. My Walther 99s, QAs and CCP ride in the Avenger as do my Browning HPs. The fit is perfect and will hold the guns w/o a strap for another half century or so. I do use his #5 for some range type guns, and they double as EDC CCW quite well. I have even taken to packing my BUG (either a 940 or Colt MK III snub) in left hand avengers as the access is so good and the retention excellent. For an off duty j frame the avenger is the best I have ever used. The tight fit requiring a tight one direction draw is excellent retention control against a gun grab. The only Threepersons LOBO I have is for the Colt defender 3" and I have been using it for 6 years now and it is as good as the first time I used it.
You can buy any of Rays' products with total confidence.
Jack

 

[wrangler5]

For concealment, I've always thought thinner was better if retention and stability are otherwise equivalent. The Avenger design looks to me like it puts an extra layer of leather between the gun and the body - the holster loop behind the gun - whereas the pancake design puts BOTH holster loops away from the gun itself. That's why I picked Ray's Enhanced Pancake for my first OWB daily carry holster (and am now waiting for a second one to arrive.)

It's also why I've never seen the attraction of IWB holsters that put a belt clip on top of the gun itself - why make it thicker where it's already going to be the thickest, especially on a revolver holster. Of course, that's just me.

 

[Coastie762]

For concealment, I've always thought thinner was better if retention and stability are otherwise equivalent. The Avenger design looks to me like it puts an extra layer of leather between the gun and the body - the holster loop behind the gun - whereas the pancake design puts BOTH holster loops away from the gun itself. That's why I picked Ray's Enhanced Pancake for my first OWB daily carry holster (and am now waiting for a second one to arrive.)

It's also why I've never seen the attraction of IWB holsters that put a belt clip on top of the gun itself - why make it thicker where it's already going to be the thickest, especially on a revolver holster. Of course, that's just me.

You may want to take a look at Lobo's IWB with offset clip. I have two, one for my J-frames (pictured) and another for my 9MM Shield. They work very well to conceal the gun without adding unwanted bulk. They are also easy on/easy off which is nice when making a quick trip to the store.

 

[wrangler5]

You may want to take a look at Lobo's IWB with offset clip. I have two, one for my J-frames (pictured) and another for my 9MM Shield. They work very well to conceal the gun without adding unwanted bulk. They are also easy on/easy off which is nice when making a quick trip to the store.

I actually have a tuckable version of one of those from another maker. My experience has been that, over the course of a day, the holster ends up tipping forward, essentially pivoting on the clip. This was with two different airweights - I'd expect the steel 640 I now carry to be worse in this regard. (The two layers of leather are also a bit thicker than the leather/kydex holster that I use most often.) That's why I only use 2-clip IWB models now.

I know others must have better experience with the single offset clip design or they wouldn't stay in production. But for my guns/belts/body shape they have not been satisfactory.

 

[Coastie762]

Was the clip on yours forward or aft of the gun? Somewhere in my holster box I have one similar to what you describe. It was tuckable, but set the gun a bit too high for me and would rotate on the belt. The clip was also forward of the gun which for me seemed to contribute to the movement.

I wear mine at 8:00-8:30 (left handed) and it stays put quite well. I find the Lobo version sits at the correct height for me.

 

[bronco45]

I own both models for various handguns. If your gun is heavy with a short barrel go with the enhanced Pancake. More stability and security which translates into more comfortable wear.