Lock >>> lockless?

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Naphtali

Naphtali

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It is my understanding that S&W continues to manufacture revolvers without the lock mechanism. If this is true, can an owner of a revolver with lock mechanism ship that revolver to the factory to have the lock mechanism removed (and a filler or dummy installed to eliminate the visual hole where key inserts)?

As far as I know, the presence of the lock mechanism is not mandatory, excepting perhaps California, Massachusetts, et al. I own a Marlin (J.M.) 1895 whose cross-bolt safety has been replaced by a non-functional pin that renders that safety's hole to emulate a quarter inch screw. I also have a Rossi 92 copy of Winchester 1892 whose breech bolt safety has been replaced with a Steve's Guns replacement filler.

I could mention other non-OEM gun parts having similar functions . . . which returns me to asking whether S&W's custom shop, or repair shop, or [fill-in-the-blank] shop offers such a service where it would not create an issue.
 
They, that is Smith and Wesson, will not remove or alter a factory installed safety mechanism.

Purely my opinion here, but for obvious liability reasons, gun owners shouldn't remove or tamper with them either.
 
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If you remove the lock you should plug the hole so no lock exists for a key to operate. You don’t want anyone saying they got a gun from you with an inactivated lock.
 
The lock is not a safety device. It has nothing to do with the 4 rules, and nothing to do with safe storage. It was a political device only, because people who knew absolutely nothing about serious use firearms came up with an idea that answered a question that no knowledgeable person had ever or would ever ask.

If there is a liability problem with an improperly stored firearm which is then obtained by a person who should not get it, the lock or lack thereof is not the problem. An unethical lawyer might argue it, or an unqualified person who is not a lawyer suggests it is an issue, but that does not make it so. My out of use firearms are stored unloaded and locked in the safe. My personal defense firearms are stored ready to use and accessible, because portions of seconds count. You do not and will not have the time to unlock a firearm if needed; nor to chamber a round if you carry an autopistol unchambered because of some irrational fear. That is a training issue.

We do not have kids. We do not have kids enter our home, for lots of reasons, mostly the dogs. Darned near no one enters our home, in fact. We have to make arrangements to have service personnel here to work on things; they can't get to the door due to the fencing and have to call from outside.

When we lived closer to friends and family with kids, our protocol had to be different. If one has kids, or there is a real possibility of short notice visits by kids, there is one answer, and one answer only: WEAR YOUR PERSONAL PROTECTION FIREARM.

Do I care a lot about the lock? Not really, but I will not have a firearm with it. It serves no legitimate purpose to a serious firearm user, and is a potential point of failure that should not exist, and presents an unacceptable risk. I have been informed of LE agencies that prohibit the use of firearms with the lock for exactly that reason. I am not worried about persons who should not have access getting access, because I take appropriate steps to address that risk. I would worry, and for far more cause, that a firearm I needed to work RIGHT NOW does not.
 
The lock would not dissuade me from buying a S&W revolver. Aesthetically, I think they look better without them and would never use the lock. I have never used any lock supplied with guns.


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The lock would not deter a thief. They "keys" are all the same, and are easy to get.
Or, the new "owner" could simply remove the lock.
The lock seems very cheaply made, and I would not trust it to protect young ones. In the safe, or in my pocket.

Best,
Rick
 
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Personally I dont care one way or other "looks" wise. To me its just one of those things you know is there but I dont pay attention to it or notice it. That said, I dont like it because it insults my intelligence, if you dont want someone messing with your gun....store it properly or keep it on you.....its not hard.

Also as others said the keys are ALL the same and I believe they can be had on Amazon for $15 or less so any thief who is serious can order it and solve that issue.

Ive also never seen any first hand reports that a lock on a S&W disabled a gun or caused any other issues to a gun while firing, so I dont see why its a "concern" of some. Most reports Ive ever seen are "some guys second cousins best friend heard at a bar" that a S&W lock caused an issue. So I dont really hold much stock in that.

Then again, I also dont have any revolvers Smith or otherwise in any defensive rotation around the house so I have little concern about a lock failing as all my defensive weapons are semi-autos.
 
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Naphtali, there are companies that sell a plug to replace the lock. It can be done by you or by a gunsmith.
As mentioned, S&W will probably not do that for you for obvious reasons.
I won’t get into the pluses or negatives of doing it. I do believe that it’s a matter of personal preference and nothing else.
I can’t steer you in the direction of who sells the plugs, I’ve never bought one, but an internet search should fix you up.
Good luck!
 
From what I've read here over the years in the evergreen threads on this subject, S&W will NOT remove a lock for you. And if you send them a gun for repair that left the factory with a lock but now doesn't have one, they will install a new one and charge you a whole bunch of money for parts and labor before they will send it back to you.

Having once installed the lock in a particular model, S&W would face decades of litigation from lawyers screaming "you removed the safety from a gun my client stole from a house and shot himself with so you owe him a gazillion dollars." S&W might win most of those cases, but it still costs a fortune to defend 'em, and the shareholders would eventually ask the managers what the economic benefit to the company was that justified all that litigation expense. They still seem to sell all of the lock-equipped revolvers they make, so what would the managers answer?

I don't personally like the locks, and have removed-and-plugged the couple that came on guns I carry daily. But I recognize that I'm a tiny minority of the S&W customer universe, and hold no hope that I will ever again see new, external hammer S&W revolvers without a lock.
 
Ruger had a lock in the grip frame of their Blackhawks several years ago.
They no longer do, so there is some hope for S&W.
S&W sells all of their revolvers with a very cheaply made cylinder lock. I would think this would mitigate removal of the Internal Lock.

Best,
Rick
 
Jessie said:
Naphtali, there are companies that sell a plug to replace the lock. It can be done by you or by a gunsmith.
As mentioned, S&W will probably not do that for you for obvious reasons.
I won’t get into the pluses or negatives of doing it. I do believe that it’s a matter of personal preference and nothing else.
I can’t steer you in the direction of who sells the plugs, I’ve never bought one, but an internet search should fix you up.
Good luck!
Click to expand...

I'm surprised it took 11 posts before someone mentioned this.
There are at least two people here on the site (maybe more) that make & sell them. Just go to the classifieds/accessories sub forum and search using the terms "lock plug" and you'll find them...

Personally I wouldn't have a gun intended for self defense carry with a lock - I'd remove it and plug the hole. But for a range gun, they are a non-issue for me.
 
Grind off the tab that engages the hammer and reinstall it. No way it can fail that way. Looks original. Even flags when you use the key. It just can't lock the hammer.
AA
 
AlwaysArmed said:
Grind off the tab that engages the hammer and reinstall it. No way it can fail that way. Looks original. Even flags when you use the key. It just can't lock the hammer.
AA
Click to expand...
Even if you plan to keep the gun until the day you die, at some point it is going to belong to someone else. The fact that they think it has a working lock when it doesn't is potentially dangerous.

I can easily see where someone who doesn't have a way to lock the gun away thinks they are OK to leave it unsecured because they have disabled it and made "safe" by engaging the lock. Then some kid gets hold of it and accidentally shoots one of their little friends. No thanks.

I would completely remove the lock and leave an open hole in the side of the gun before I would permanently disable the lock and leave it installed an looking like it is still operable. Just my opinion.
 
Pull it out and plug it up...:D

9Bktei1.jpg
 
Can the plug be installed and flag maintained, but deactivated? I don’t want to plug one hole only to create another. The resulting gap between the frame and hammer would bother me more than the lock.
 
Many thanks, guys, for the information. Disabling a sporting rifle's "kludge" lock is not quite the same as disabling a firearm intended for EDC and/or self defense. And yes, the difference to me is the potential liability difference. That's the reason I wanted to know whether the manufacturer could complete the job.

Rather than any third party device, it is easier, albeit more expensive, to purchase the revolver of my preference in an earlier "dash" that has no lock. And, of course, there are other brands offering competitive revolvers.
 
It is the flag moving under recoil that produces the occasional reports of unexpected lockups. This is despite a spring in the lock mechanism intended to hold the flag/lock in the "unlocked" position until it is moved by the key, against the spring pressure, into the locked position. If you want to leave the flag in place to fill up the notch it moves in next to the hammer, you would have to keep the spring in there, too, and you would continue to have the risk of unexpected lockup. (If your concerns are cosmetic, this would be irrelevant.)

I put a plug in one of my carry guns. I thought about having a machinist friend of mine help me make up a flag-sized plate of the correct thickness but with no locking nub, and a pin for it to pivot on like the real thing. It would just rotate up and down in the space where the real lock plate would have been, or maybe I would have shaped it so it couldn't really move and would just fill up the slot. But I never got around to doing anything about it. Perhaps somebody else has.
 
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I don't own a Smith with the lock, but if I wanted to purchase a new S&W ( my newest is 1994 ) revolver, the lock wouldn't bother me a bit. Several of our outdoor league shooters own guns with the lock "unaltered", and the topic has never even been discussed. :)
 
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