A brand new 300 win mag came into my family at xmas.. shot up 20 rem. 180 grain factory loads all was good . but when i reload them . primers show pressure and case extraction is tough. using lowest powder charge {looking in 8 differnt loadind manuals] even going one grain under still showes pressure and hard extraction.. fulllength resized .. trimed ... using cci 350 mag primers 68 gr. 4831 and 76 gr.h 1000 still hot ???????????????? bullet .010 to .020 off of rifleing..
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- Thread starter Alaska MJ
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MichiganScott
Member
What are your pressure signs and how did you set up your sizing die?
The first thing I can think of is, "What diameter are the bullets?", not what the box says. Second "What weight are the bullets", and Third, "Did you push the shoulder back too far when resizing?", This would create a head space problem. Good Luck. Ivan
Bullets are fine tried Speer 180s some old mag tips I've had for 20 years or so,and 180 new accubonds. Same press. I forgot about the belted mag thing and the shoulder,,,Ill have a look at that,you must have somthing there,cause it's the only thing I didn't think of. Lol
WHO CARES
Member
CCI 350 ARE PISTOL PRIMERS
Try some designed for the rifles.
ward
Try some designed for the rifles.
ward
The post above is correct, definitely switch to rifle primers before coming to any conclusions. From my understanding, rifle primers are designed to not only be more sturdy with respect to being hit with the firing pin as well as more sturdy against higher pressures than pistol primers, even magnum primers. Therefore, if you are getting over pressure signs, it may be due to the pressure exceeding what the pistol primer can handle which is not a sign that the load is over pressure with respect to the rifle. Additionally, I'm not sure what exactly the chemical differences are between rifle and pistol primers and therefore how they would effect the kinetics of the powder burn, using the incorrect primer if you are nearing a max or even a reasonable load could be changing the time-pressure curve enough to cause an elevated peak pressure, leading to over pressure signs.
In short, try some rifle primers.
In short, try some rifle primers.
MichiganScott
Member
That's what I was trying to get at when I asked how you set up your sizing die and what signs of high pressure were you getting.
Flattened primers from excess headspace are often mistaken for high pressure signs. It is impossible to read pressure from looking at primers. Your best bet is to follow the books and chronograph your loads. If your velocity is much over book with any given powder, you can bet your pressure is too high.
I found out the hard way that by headspacing belted mags on the belt and not the shoulder I was lucky to get three loads before the head started to separate.
I followed the book, but that doesn't explain the case sticking in the chamber. I'm already a grain under minimum in the books and I don't have flattened primers I have cratered primers.
I've adjusted the seat die an eighth of a turn in from the bolt just closing easy. Like I've been doing for 50 years. I've never had a cartridge stick in the chamber when shooting this light of recommended powder.
Remembering factory loads are shooting fine, do not stick in the chamber and primers aren't cratered.
Tried two different powders, two different primers, two different bullets all with the same results.
Could it possibly be the die? It's old and I don't have any personal history with it.
I did have a little luck reducing the crater after I found I was pushing the neck down a little too much, the bolt doesn't stick quite as bad, but still I'm at the very bottom of the load. I've never shot a cartridge in my life that I've needed to be at the bottom of the load data range.
Alaska MJ , you never said what the rifle is, or if it is Custom or Factory, or how it shot.
Michigan Scott's point about headspacing off the belt is a point that can't be stressed enough. Some companies get it right, My 300 Win Mag is a 29 year old Japanese Weatherby Vanguard VGX, and the brass is great for sustained reloading. I had a Ruger 77 before that, it didn't shot well and the brass was trashed in 2 or 3 loadings.
I found that the VGX really likes boat tail Sierra Gameking 200's, when I was younger and in practice, I could keep 3 of these in 3/4" @ 100 offhand, more often than not. Never got those results with any of the 180's I tried. It worked great with IMR 3031 and a 215M primer. Ivan
Michigan Scott's point about headspacing off the belt is a point that can't be stressed enough. Some companies get it right, My 300 Win Mag is a 29 year old Japanese Weatherby Vanguard VGX, and the brass is great for sustained reloading. I had a Ruger 77 before that, it didn't shot well and the brass was trashed in 2 or 3 loadings.
I found that the VGX really likes boat tail Sierra Gameking 200's, when I was younger and in practice, I could keep 3 of these in 3/4" @ 100 offhand, more often than not. Never got those results with any of the 180's I tried. It worked great with IMR 3031 and a 215M primer. Ivan
It's a brand new Remington 700 factory rife, 300 win mag. Nothing custom except the ammo I'm trying to reload for it.
We haven't really gotten to see how fantastic it shot other than just factory loads which were about 3" groups at 100 yards. It was Remington core loc factory ammo, I've only ran 1 box through it and am now trying to reload that same 20 rounds.
At first I thought it was just the bolt being sticky from being new until I noticed it only did it with the reloaded ammo and not the factory stuff.
Before I can worry about the groups I have to get past the problem with pressure at lowest loads.
And I like the idea of 3/4" groups. If it can't shoot those I'm not interested in keeping it.
Have you compared the dimensions of a fired one to a resized case?
Factory fired case right above the belt is .5125. Once fired factory round
The reloaded round measured in the same area = .512
Once fired from factory and once reloaded and fired and then reloaded a second time.
Edit: after further inspection of other cases I've got one reloaded at .5115, .5125 and .5120
Also changed the first word from unfired to factory fired.
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People seem put off by the need to shoot offhand, but I insist that with your Varmint rifle, you should (I require it to hunt my critters) be able to do 3"-3 shot groups at 100 yards. We see about 40% of them walking to & from the good shooting spots, and 3" is about the size for head shots on groundhogs. When we walk in the hills we run about a 125 yard horizon at the most. My sons and I go by "No body, No Kill" rules, so if he dies in the hole it won't count. So I like "Stalking" with the 7.5 pound or so rifles, and that's what my 300 weighs +scope, and it worked out to be one of my best stalking rifles...just not for groundhogs. Ivan
Ia.redneck
Member
Something else you might want to check is bullet release.
See if you can drop a bullet into one of your fired cases, should go in easily. If there isn't room for the neck to expand it can cause high pressure.
See if you can drop a bullet into one of your fired cases, should go in easily. If there isn't room for the neck to expand it can cause high pressure.
Might check the length to both points of the shoulder and over all.Compare a factory round to a reloaded one.
Might check if the reloads are engaging the rifling rather than sitting just short of it too.
Might check if the reloads are engaging the rifling rather than sitting just short of it too.
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stavman11
Member
I would suggest a head space guage.... case seems to not be sized correctly Thus extraction issues
If the case is not Chambering correctly couldnt THAT couse goofy Hits/Signs on the Primers????
Anyways my thoughts
If the case is not Chambering correctly couldnt THAT couse goofy Hits/Signs on the Primers????
Anyways my thoughts
Since factory ammo works.................
your die settings are wrong.
Case shoulder needs to be correct and not changed.........
Use a factory OAL and get rid of the .02" off the lands until you find out what the problem is.
Bolt needs to close without ANY pressure or force needed !!
your die settings are wrong.
Case shoulder needs to be correct and not changed.........
Use a factory OAL and get rid of the .02" off the lands until you find out what the problem is.
Bolt needs to close without ANY pressure or force needed !!
Redneck. Your on to somthing there the bullets ( three different brands are hard to insert and remove as a matter of fact there just the right tension for finding the rifling . So ... The chamber around the neck is to tight? If so why do the factory rounds work. I have a buddy that has been saving his brass from his 300 for years and he has every kind of factory ammo out there I am going to confiscate it. Maybe that will shed some light on it. THANKS
. ED
bolt closes easy just like factory rounds. I'll also try factory OAL. THANKS MJ
Ia.redneck
Member
I ran into the same thing on a 22-250 once. Getting pressure signs with normal loads. The brass flows forward and thickens the neck making it harder for the bullet to release. I solved it by reaming the inside of the neck with a Wilson .220 reamer and then resized normally. No more flat primers and sticky extraction. 
You could verify by measuring the neck diameter of a factory round and compare with your handloads.
You could verify by measuring the neck diameter of a factory round and compare with your handloads.
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fredj338
Member
The neck tension issue has merit, but usually does NOT show up in one firing, unless there is a headspace issue. Set the dies up so a sized case just chambers. That will give you min headspace. Check the OD of a factory round & one you have handloaded. Keep track of the number of times a case has been fired. You may need to be annealing &/or case neck turning to accomidate a tighter chamber neck.
I know this sounds simple, but triple check everything, primers, powder & your scale. Simple things are often the casue for problems reloading.
I know this sounds simple, but triple check everything, primers, powder & your scale. Simple things are often the casue for problems reloading.
I ran into the same thing on a 22-250 once. Getting pressure signs with normal loads. The brass flows forward and thickens the neck making it harder for the bullet to release. I solved it by reaming the inside of the neck with a Wilson .220 reamer and then resized normally. No more flat primers and sticky extraction.
You could verify by measuring the neck diameter of a factory round and compare with your handloads.
I am on it. It will be awhile, customers are hollaran about there 4 wheelers not being fixed [in time for moose hunting next year] and even one guy for not welding his boat. [It was 15 below zero yesterday ] The salmon will be here in june. But i love em all. Thanks for the help.... I think [ like Ivan said] I had the sizing die in too far and was pushing the neck down .Iam going to start over with new brass.... MJ
THANKS for the input...fred 338 my favorite cartridge...and favorite rifle. I have a rem. 700 with schelen barrel. lightend by wild west guns to 5.3 lbs, there own muzzle brake .. small woman shoot it. It puts 250 gr.x bullets [on my best days] in .28 to.33. It really is true that the lighter the rifle the better the brake works ,cause its got less work to do. THANKS
gregintenn
Member
If your bullets do in fact measure .308 (the wrong stuff does occasionally get into a box), you might consider neck sizing a couple, loading them to the minimum listed load, and seeing what happens.
To answer your question, yes, you could have a defective sizing die.
I'm guessing your shoulders are set too far back.
To answer your question, yes, you could have a defective sizing die.
I'm guessing your shoulders are set too far back.
I tried just neck sizeing .right after Ivan mentioned it .so the shoulders cant be set back any more even if they once were . correct? I ve mic ck d all the bullets different makes...In order to get away from sticky extraction I have to get 2 thats two grains powder chg. under min. Keep the info coming Thanks and yes the rifles clean,if I clean it any more it will be wore out be four it kills a moose.
gregintenn
Member
Not sure I'm following you, but neck sizing a piece of brass you've already full length sized isn't going to help. I meant neck size a piece of once fired brass.
What i was getting at but didn't expand on it enough,was Ivan, a number of threads ago mentioned that he thought i was setting the shoulder back to far and he was correct . I changed the die so the bolt would fall a little easier and it helped a little bit. so i was a little bit off on the seat die setting . but of course Ive fired those rounds since than and if there was a shoulder problem it is now fixed be cause Ive fire formed them.and since than I have turned the die out more and just neck sized. and still have sticky extraction at below min powder cg.......so I just received from my buddy a box of premier swift factory loads,, 50 unfired new remington brass and a brand new rcbs set of dies....I don't know what the situation is where your at but here I can't just go to the store and buy any of the above articals they are not to be had ,the shelves are all empty.. THANKS sorry for the confusion
fredj338
Member
Yeah I am a big 338 fan, mostly my 338-06, but I also have a Ruger #1 rebarreled to 338x74K, pretty much a 338winmag that is flanged. The loooong cartridge is kinda cool though. Hope you find & fix the problem.
