M&P 10mm Compact?
- Thread starter Repr650
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A 4" version already exists, how much more compact are you thinking?
I can tell you from experience that really short firearms chambered in 10MM Auto have a heck of a bark when firing full power ammunition
My CS10s are my two most compact pistols in that caliber
I can tell you from experience that really short firearms chambered in 10MM Auto have a heck of a bark when firing full power ammunition
My CS10s are my two most compact pistols in that caliber
Well Armed
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Might as well just get a 40s&w as it will be the same difference
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Just wanted something slightly smaller, to the exact size of the 9mm compact.
A 4" version with full size frame already exists in 9mm aswell but they still made a compact frame.
oworthsr
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I just did exactly that yesterday...a 40 cal 3.1" Shield 2.0. Then I ordered a drop-in conversion barrel for it so I can also shoot .357 SIG rounds. Life will be good when my purchases are in-house.
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Sounds good. What Repr650 and others who jumped on the 10mm bandwagon do not realize is that the ballistics on these 4.5 or less handguns with commercial 10mm is almost identical if not identical to 40s&w. They have the false misconception that they're carrying something so much more powerful when all they're really doing is carrying a bigger and more expensive handgun with more expensive ammo.
10mm is the new fad and current flavor of the month though. Even though 10mm self-defense
rounds are not doing anything better than 40s&w in these small carry sized handguns, many gun owners have been groomed to be anti 40s&w and pro 10mm by gun magazines and firearm manufacturers.
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Incorrect
What changes is that the muzzle velocity difference narrows as the barrels of the two firearms get shorter
However, a Faster Cartridge is ALWAYS FASTER than it's slower brother when fired from the same barrel length and style of firearm no matter what that barrel length is
The two cartridges NEVER ARE EQUAL when fired from the same barrel length and style of firearm
It is up to the individual to decide if the velocity gain is worth it to him/her
BTW, I jumped on the 10MM Auto Bandwagon in 1984 and have been shooting it and developing ammunition for it ever since.
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They are just about equal in performance wise and when it comes to diminishing returns for self-defense against humans. They just are.
FYI, you can also have two 10mms by different manufacturers or even two 9mms by different manufacturers of the same weight but different velocities. Even still, both will perform similarly. Yes, 10mm rounds may have a little faster velocity, but they aren't really over performing 40s&w. What you get is maybe, for example, 20" of penetration instead of 19 with simular expansion in many cases.
I can't speak on any reload ammo you say you personally developed, but I can speak on what's sold commercially. I assume you have access to ballistic gel? Can you setup and video your results out of a sub 4.5" barrel so I can compare it to other 40s&w offerings?
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In your original post you said "if not identical to 40s&w"
Now you are walking it back to "just about equal"
"just about equal" is not EQUAL
It is just common sense that two loadings from different Manufacturers will always Perform Differently . . . . So What
A 10MM Auto loading in a firearm that has a 6" barrel that clocks faster than a similar weight 40S&W loading in the same style of Firearm with the same length of barrel will ALWAYS BE FASTER than those same two loadings when both are clocked from a 4 1/2" barrel in the same style of Firearms
The claim that
Is Totally Incorrect
You can not ignore Physics and the science of Internal Ballistics just because you want to
I have not brought up any reloads in my previous posts.
The 10MM Auto ammunition that I developed was for Commercial Sale to the US Government for their integrally suppressed 10MM Auto SMGs that were intended to replace the aging inventory of MP5/10s
Of course we make blocks of 10% ballistic GEL for wound channel studies
If you want to learn, you need to do the work yourself
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I am not walking anything back. I know you're a fanboy thus your blood pressure is up, but maybe you should go back and read what I said again. What I said is and I quote: "almost identical if not identical." "almost identical" and "just about equal" is the same thing buddy. Calm down and read what I actually stated. I'll accept my apology now please.
Next, there are 10mm offerings that are simular velocities as 40s&w offerings hence my "if not identical" comment that got you all riled up.
So what? I explained that in the rest of my paragraph. Stop taking out a snippet, quoting it, and then pretending to not get the point.
My point is you brought up "speed" aka velocity. My point was velocity is not the be all. Velocity is not the only factor that dictates performance down range. You can have a 10mm round with higher velocity that will still perform similarly in ballistic gel and other testing than 10mm round that is going slower or faster. Likewise, a slightly faster 10mm round doesn't automatically translate into better performance.
I don't know anything about 6" barrels or have any data on 6" vs 4.5" barrels with regards to 10mm and 40s&w which is why I didn't mention anything longer than 4.5". I did assume that a the longer the 10mm barrel the bigger the difference in velocity would be. That is, the velocity difference between a 180gr 10mm and 40s&w (if any) out of a 3" barrel will be less pronounced vs out of a 6" barrel.
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I don't need to learn anything. You referenced 10mm you claimed to have developed, and I simply asked for a ballistics gel video. What is the name of this 10mm ammo you developed, so I can look up the data and compare.
All true for certain!
I'll stick to .38 Special and 9mm, maybe occasionally .45 ACP. I don't expect to be confronted by Arnold the Terminator.....
Obviously, YMMV is most applicable here........
The 9mm compact is a shorter grip than the Full Size but 2 rounds less in the compact too and the barrel on the full size is 4.25 not 4" . Small details but get'um right !
I carry a 4.25 or 5" 2.0 pc 40 with underwoods 155gr hp will average 1318fps . The 5" 1338fps . 165gr hp will do a little over 1200fps Not sure for many whats so special about a 10mm if CC is a concern but its not really hard to find what choices you have .
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If you purchased ammo for self-defense to EDC in say, for example, an XDM 3.8" 10mm, what would you choose?
The_Truth
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Dude, not sure why you're being so argumentative but there are plenty of full power 10mm offerings available that aren't even in the same universe as 40 S&W. Underwood, Buffalo Bore, pick your poison. No gel test needed.
People have been saying 10mm was a "bandwagon" and a "fad" for over 30 years but yet there are more and more of them being produced now than ever before and with a multitude of full power ammo offerings.
10mm is best mm.
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It is the new fad. Yes, 10mm has been around for a while, and the minority of people have been carrying and shooting it for years. I agree with you there. With that said, there's no doubt that out the blue all of a sudden within the last few years 10mm has become the new fad that everyone wants to get into even people who had no interest in the past until they seen everyone else doing it.
A couple of Buffalo Bore and Underwood self-defense offerings are NOT a lot or "plenty." Most are FMJ or flat nose hunting rounds that 99.99% of people aren’t going to carry for self-defense nor will they kill anyone deader vs using 40s&w. People like to tout heavy FMJ or FN Buffalo Bore and Underwood hunting loads that they aren't going to EDC when they make an argument for 10mm, but then put some other more realistic 10mm JHP in their 4" polymer pistols that's basically a 40s&w.
Your 180gr 10mm Underwood XTP isn't doing anything that 180gr 40s&w can't do other than maybe over penetrate .5" or so further.
What penetration and expansion are you getting with your 180gr 10mm Underwood XTP? I want to hear what you're getting based on your own experience or what you seen.
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Not a m&p but one more choice below for you but remember , short barrels and hot loads may not be reliable !!
Just a moment...
So many think the 10mm is all that . Guess they never seen or fired a 40 super over a chrony !! 220gr bullet at 1350 fps is move'n right along for a pistol . Children ,, I mean adults and there - My toys better than your toy mentality .
