M&P-15 accuracy?

[Popeye77]

First 2 things I did was free float the barrel and changed the trigger out those 2 changes will make a difference and optics do also (you cant hit well if you can't see what you are shooting at well also). Mine has a leupold AR 1.5-4X.

 

[Westie1]

I'm going to go at this a little differently than other posters have. Rather than going out and buying a new scope, try different brands and weights of ammo first. All barrels have their likes and dislikes as to ammo. Yours just may not like what you have shot. As an example, My Sport II shoots better with a 52gr bullet than it does a 55gr.

 

[Charlie Foxtrott]

Ditch the green tip!

Get some better glass also. The AE ammo runs well in some guns, others not so much. I have three S&W M&P rifles. A performance center 20' heavy barreled gun M&P 15. A standard M&P 15, and more recently a M&P AR-10.


All three shoot very well but they like good ammo. And every rifle out there will benefit from quality glass.

 

[vipermd]

I'm going to go at this a little differently than other posters have. Rather than going out and buying a new scope, try different brands and weights of ammo first.

You can have the most accurate ammo for your gun, but will not be able to shoot small groups if you cannot see the X on the target. Not sayin that you have to put out 1000$, but a 3X9X40 with a fine duplex will give you smaller groups than any red dot or thick reticles. Be Safe,

 

[1sailor]

The target pictured below was 10 rounds fired at a measured 65 yards using cheap ammo. The rifle is equipped with a Nikon P223 3x scope and a Timney 3 pound trigger. I don't always shoot this well which is why I saved the target but I think it does a good job of showing what the rifle is capable of. The rifle was rested over the top of a sawhorse with my jacket over the top for padding.

 

[Rastoff]

I measured your group 1sailor. Here it is:

For people taking their time, this is better than average for an AR that is well maintained. I see targets measuring just under 1MOA to 1.5MOA all the time.

Here is one of mine at 50 yards using Wolf Gold ammo:

 

[Rastoff]

The scope you are using is the first problem. I love bushnell scopes, dependable, well worth the money, but the one you are using has a large dot, vs a fine reticle.

I disagree. Yes, the OP's scope is a lower end scope and has a reticle designed for CQB, but it can be used precisely.

I can't find the size of that dot, but let's assume it's a 2MOA dot because that's pretty common. That seems like a lot and it is, but there is a way to work with that size of a dot.

A 2MOA dot will cover 2" at 100 yards. The prevailing thought here is that a dot that size will move over those 2" and thus cause a large group. This need not be the case.

Use the edge of the dot. Turn down the brightness so that the dot is in very crisp focus. Then put the edge of the dot on the intended target. This is a very small aiming point and can be used to be very consistent shot to shot.

Here is a target I shot with a 2MOA red dot at 50 yards:

Granted, it's only a three shot group, but it's still under 1MOA and I used a 2MOA red dot sight to do it.

 

[Kodiakco]

My S&W M&P 15 OR is very accurate.

My only mods are a free float handguard & trigger.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Popeye77]

What Kodiadco said and a good scope. Found a deal on a Rise trigger 3lb. would suggest 4lb. Love it but need to be careful with it.

 

[vipermd]

I disagree. Yes, the OP's scope is a lower end scope and has a reticle designed for CQB, but it can be used precisely.
Use the edge of the dot. Turn down the brightness so that the dot is in very crisp focus. Then put the edge of the dot on the intended target. This is a very small aiming point and can be used to be very consistent shot to shot.
Granted, it's only a three shot group, but it's still under 1MOA and I used a 2MOA red dot sight to do it.

Yes and it is only 50 yards, not 100. I agree that you can use a very crisp red dot for precision at close ( 50 yds ) range. If your eyes are capable, and you have a crisp red/green dot you may be able to get 1 moa @ 100, but it would be difficult, while a finer crosshair, increased magnification will allow you to be more precise quicker. At 100 I can not see a sharp delineation from the red dot borders as I can see with fine crosshairs. Can you shoot one at 100 yards and post it? Be Safe,

 

[vipermd]

I only know what my Sport can do. I've shot 8" groups at 200 yards standing up with no support using a red dot sight with mine. i I haven't ever shot it off a rest. I guess I didn't buy it for that kind of shooting. shot repeatedly at 200 yards indicates a rifle that will shoot small groups from a rest with the right ammo. I was basically just plinking.

4" @ 100 ? I do not believe that you can determine the accuracy off hand at 200 yards. Shoot off a steady rest, good scope, @ 100, 200, 300, etc to determine the accuracy of the rifle. Your skill at 200 is great, I know many who could not maintain 8" @ 100 off hand, but it still does not tell you how accurate the gun is. Be Safe,

 

[C J]

4" @ 100 ? I do not believe that you can determine the accuracy off hand at 200 yards. Shoot off a steady rest, good scope, @ 100, 200, 300, etc to determine the accuracy of the rifle. Your skill at 200 is great, I know many who could not maintain 8" @ 100 off hand, but it still does not tell you how accurate the gun is. Be Safe,

That isn't the only distance I've shot the rifle. But it does indicate the capability of the rifle. 4" at 100 yards is not that great and neither is 8" at 200 yards. But shooting that consistently at that distance indicates a certain level of accuracy. No it doesn't determine absolute accuracy. To be honest I never bought the rifle for that kind of shooting. I have scopes I could mount on it but it's red dot only for me. If I want to shoot for accuracy I'll use a bolt action rifle. I doubt I'll ever know the full potential of the rifle's accuracy. I do know it is considerably more accurate than my other AR was. And it was no cheap rifle.

I just thought it would indicate a level of potential accuracy to tell what I did with the rifle. I could have talked about shooting individual blades of tall grass at 30 yards which I've also done. I know an accurate rifle when I shoot one and for me to shoot the 200 yard groups I was getting it takes an accurate rifle.

Shooting off hand requires different things from a rifle like better balance. Holding steady with a rest doesn't require nearly as much balance in the rifle. It also has to have a good enough trigger that it breaks consistently which this rifle does have. I grew up with heavy triggers. I learned to shoot them accurately. I think of the AR as a CQB rifle which requires a certain level of accuracy and it needs to be able to shoot that way without a rest. There are other types of rifles than rifles the need to be shot from a rest. And the AR is one of them IMO. There's more to it than just off a rest accuracy.

 

[vipermd]

4" at 100 yards is not that great and neither is 8" at 200 yards. But shooting that consistently at that distance indicates a certain level of accuracy. No it doesn't determine absolute accuracy.

I agree with what you are saying, but you have a certain level of skill. Anyone who wants to know what the accuracy of the firearm, should shoot it off a rest, good optics, good trigger, best ammo- Just so you know what it is capable of. Back when turkey shoots had live turkeys, I watched a Jar Head take 3 birds in 4 shots( head shot ) @ 100 yds. He frequently shot and still does shoot the Win 70 in 308. I used to spend enough money to buy a turkey, because I had to compete against him. I did get turkey since he is my brother and he and my father ( Jar head ) taught me to shoot. I have seen too many people trying to zero scopes a 100 yards, off hand and just wasted ammo. The scopes were not even bore sited. Be Safe,

 

[Rastoff]

Can you shoot one at 100 yards and post it? Be Safe,

I can, but I don't have a red dot mounted at the moment. However, I do have a 200 yard, 5 shot group, I shot using back up iron sights (BUIS) off a rest. Will this do?

Not quite as good as the other target, but still <1MOA while using Wolf Gold ammo. Sure, this isn't with a red dot, but it's the same principle.

Please understand, I completely agree with you that a scope is the right way to go for precision shooting. Someone said that a red dot cannot be used for precision shooting and that's false. Is it the best choice? No, but you can get pretty precise with it.

The red dot is a superior choice for 100 yards and closer when speed is necessary. Also, what is the purpose of said gun? If self-defense is your goal, then a 2MOA gun is fine. In fact the MIL-SPEC for the M4 is 5 inches at 100 yards. If any of us owned a gun with that poor of an accuracy we'd be changing something.

But self-defense doesn't require super precision. Check this out:

I shot this target with a Tavor X95 (not known for it's accuracy). Here we see a 3.7MOA group shot at 100 yards. Most would not be happy with this, but I was ecstatic. You see this was shot while standing, starting from the ready position, timed at 5 seconds, one shot at a time. I was using an ACOG 3x scope. I managed to get each shot off under 3 seconds. The blue square is 6" wide. This means that all of these shots are kill shots. So, yeah, huge group, but well within the limits of what the gun was made to do.

Each shooter must decide what they want from their gun. If ultimate precision is the goal, get a good scope (hint: Bushnel ain't it). If speed and defense is the goal, a good red dot is probably the best choice. If you're like me and want a mix, the 3x ACOG is hard to beat.

 

[C J]

I agree with what you are saying, but you have a certain level of skill. Anyone who wants to know what the accuracy of the firearm, should shoot it off a rest, good optics, good trigger, best ammo- Just so you know what it is capable of. Back when turkey shoots had live turkeys, I watched a Jar Head take 3 birds in 4 shots( head shot ) @ 100 yds. He frequently shot and still does shoot the Win 70 in 308. I used to spend enough money to buy a turkey, because I had to compete against him. I did get turkey since he is my brother and he and my father ( Jar head ) taught me to shoot. I have seen too many people trying to zero scopes a 100 yards, off hand and just wasted ammo. The scopes were not even bore sited. Be Safe,

I sighted my Sport using a rest. I know why a person needs to use a rest sometimes. It's pointless trying to zero shooting off hand IMO.

But let me give you an example of what I mean about a rifle needing to be made a certain way to shoot off hand. I have a Savage 12 LRPV in .223. It will shoot 5" groups all day at 500 yards off a rest. It's a varmint rifle though. It weighs 11 pounds without the scope and it's all barrel weight pretty much. So the weight is all up front. It has a 26" barrel. If I tried to shoot that rifle off hand I'd be lucky to hit a gallon jug at 20 yards with it. It's uncontrollable from the shoulder at least for me because of a back injury and a neck injury. I just don't have the strength to shoot a gun like that off hand. Some people add stuff to their AR's so that they weigh just as much but they are better balanced since the weight is usually added on the rails.

The Sport handles very well shooting off hand. Yes I can shoot pretty well but others are much better. I saw a 2" group using iron sights posted here. It was off a rest but still, that's good shooting. The point is that the rifle is capable of shooting that well off hand. Rifles that shoot well off a rest aren't always good for shooting off hand. I have a perfect example of that in that Savage 12.

 

[allmons]

With the junk the military issued, 4" MOA was great at 100 yards! Of course we had to qualify at 300 meters with iron sights! We learned to run the AR-15 Wet to keep it going.

 

[Popeye77]

I shoot off a bag and use the Nikon P223 3x9x40.
The rifle is an M&P 15 Sport, 1/8, 5R rifling.
With handloads it is sub MOA.
So set up properly these rifles can be very accurate.
Jim

About to reload for mine what load are you using and have you found which wt. bullets it prefers I have same barrel you do.

 

[Scottcc]

I have the old chrome lined mil-spec 16" barrel MOE from 2011. I mounted a Trijicon MRO red dot. At 25 yards I can put one hole in the target with 3 rounds. At 100 yards, I keep a 1.5" group without counting the fliers which I determine is my part. If I'm using my reloads, I'm using M193 NATO; between the two I don't see a difference in accuracy.

 

[jimbo728]

About to reload for mine what load are you using and have you found which wt. bullets it prefers I have same barrel you do.

The load info is written on the target in post 14 of this thread but here it is again. Sorry for the delayed response.
Jim

 

[pineoak]

I've gotten 2.5-3.2" for 5 shot groups at 100 yards shooting 55gr American Eagle using a ridiculously overpriced scope for an AR (I'm a bolt gun shooter primarily).