M&P 40 - DCAEK Kit vs. Forward Trigger Kit

[chekmate]

Hi Everyone. I've been a long time stalker, first time poster in these forums. I recently purchased the M&P 40 as my first handgun last month and I've really enjoyed it.

I've been shooting my M&P40 and have about 500 rounds through it and have decided to get the trigger pull decreased. I've been reading various review and saw the APEX DCAEK Kit did a great job of reducing the trigger pull but I'm not sure if I should just do a full trigger job. I'm hoping people on this forum can share their experiences to help me make a better decision. I'd also like to know that both these kits would work in my M&P 40 or if there is anything I need to look out for. For example, I read that the RAM kit won't work if you have the magazine disconnect. I copied the links to both kits I am considering.

https://apextactical.com/store/produ...php?pid35.html

https://apextactical.com/store/produ...php?pid54.html

Thank you for your help.

Just to be clear, I own the CA approved version with Mag Disconnect and Trigger Safeties.

 

[mb66]

I have a 2012 FS 9mm and the break point and reset were fine, but pull required to make the trigger break was hard. My Shields were even harder. I'm guessing your 40 is similar.

An Apex sear and sear spring will fix that. The rear of their sear that holds the striker is reduced meaning it takes less trigger force to release it.
speedshooterspecialties sells the Apex sear springs separately for like $7 (along with the Apex sear for $42ish). It is a little stiffer than stock.

That's the only Apex change I've made in that FS9. I've also lightly sanded out where the striker block slides which really improved the smoothness. Still has the stock striker block and I like the way the gun feels now. I've put the USB in one of my shields but smoothing out where it goes made a bigger difference.

And so you're clear, all the Apex parts are interchangeable across all guns except the 45. The Shield carry kit comes with a different sized slave pin, that's the only thing that makes it unique--same sear, trigger and sear springs.

 

[modraker]

Installing the Apex sear and the Apex USB will bring your trigger pull down to a about 4.5 lbs.

If the gun is to be used solely for target shooting you can install the Apex competition spring kit as well. This will bring the trigger pull to under 3 lbs.

If the gun is to be carried and/or used for home defense, you can install the DCAEK spring kit instead of the competition spring kit. This will raise your trigger pull up to about 5.5 lbs from the 4.5 lbs that the sear and USB combo provides.

Or you can go directly to the complete kits and save a few bucks. The RAM works only on the old sear housing blocks that have the hole in it originally intended for the "Hillary" lock.

 

[chekmate]

The RAM works only on the old sear housing blocks that have the hole in it originally intended for the "Hillary" lock.

I have no idea what this means.

Does the DC AEK kit also help with pre travel and over travel of the trigger?

Thank you for the help thus far.

 

[mb66]

Pull your slide off and look at the sear. If the cam that contacts the trigger bar is teardrop shaped, then you have one of the newer ones, very similar to the Apex sear, and so the trigger already breaks further rearward (no overtravel but more pre-travel). If it is oval shaped, it is an older sear and the trigger breaks sooner--like in the middle of the pull.

With the Apex sear (and current factory sears) you may not like all the pre-travel. For me, they're just fine. But that's why they make the forward set trigger kit. I assume it just has a very short pull but maybe someone else can chime in.

As for modraker's post, he means the RAM can only be installed in older style sears that have an unused hole in it where a Hillary lock would be installed at the factory. I doubt yours is of this type. My newer FS9, with no safety, cannot take the RAM. Until I pulled it to install the Apex sear and spring, I assumed it could per Apex' website.

While you have that slide off, look closely at the slide release, the part that sits inside the frame on the inside of the right lever (make sense?). If it has a flare (inward bend) at the edge towards the rear of the gun, then it is also one of the newer designs and that flare is to help with the reset.

Point is you may not need the RAM (even if yours can take it) unless you're just accessory crazy like the rest of us, in which case we understand.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

 

[mb66]

Some helpful reading:

M&P Production Updates: The Sear | Modern Service Weapons

you may want to follow the embedded links about the slide stop and barrel updates.

 

[modraker]

I have no idea what this means.

Does the DC AEK kit also help with pre travel and over travel of the trigger?

Thank you for the help thus far.

The so-called "Hillary" lock is an internal locking mechanism born during the Clinton era. I don't know the full history of it but it is an option in many handguns. The picture below shows a big hole where it would have resided. The Apex RAM goes in that hole. As mb66 indicated, you most likely don't have this feature. No hole, no Apex RAM.

The complete DCAEK kit includes the Fully Machined Sear which reduces the trigger pull "dramatically". It also decreases the overtravel quite nicely. The trade off is an increase in pretravel.

 

[chekmate]

Thanks everyone. I found out my firearm was manufactured at the end of May 2013, however, the hard sear is the old, oval shaped version.

I didn't check if the sear had the hole to install a RAM.

Also, the slide lock does not flare out so it appears I have the older slide lock as well.

Not sure if it's because I bought CA legal version but I would have assumed that I would have got the newer parts since it was manufactured in May 2013.

Is this something that S&W customer service can help with? If not, I'm probably going to opt for some APEX parts.

Thank you again for your help.

 

[Rastoff]

Where do you live? If you're anywhere close, even if you're not, you're welcome to come and shoot my gun.

I have both a .40 and .45 M&P. I put the Foward Set Sear kit in my .45 and it makes a dramatic difference. Almost no over travel and the slack is quite small. I highly recommend this kit and like it better than the others Apex offers. Of course it's also the most expensive.

 

[modraker]

Also, the slide lock does not flare out so it appears I have the older slide lock as well.

If you're interested in looking at photos of the old slide lock vs. the new slide lock, go to this webpage --- M&P Production Updates: Slide Stops | Modern Service Weapons

 

[mb66]

Wow--I really wasn't expecting you to find the older style parts in a 2013 gun. And I doubt S&W will fix something that ain't broke. What you have is similar to my older (2009ish) FS9. Trigger broke in the middle of the pull.

All I've done to it is replace the sear and sear spring with appropriate Apex parts, and using a 2"x2" rolled up piece of 320 grit sandpaper, sanded out where the striker block goes (after removing both the striker block and striker--it's easy). I also took the striker block and just polished it--shoved it on the end of a torx bit on my drill and spun it on a sanding sponge until it was mirror smooth (took like 3 minutes). That will not change the shape of it, you need a file for that. It is now my favorite trigger of our four M&P's. Silky smooth and perfect break. Reset is about the same as the newer gun, but that's not a big deal with me anyway.

So my recommendation would be to start there and see what you think. I'm picky and that's all my gun needed for me. With the parts you said you have now, just replacing that sear will make a huge difference. Just removing the hard break made me more accurate.

The last question about your sear block is whether it has the small or large sear spring hole (and spring/plunger). At this point I won't presume any more. You'll have to pull it and remove the sear to know for sure. My older one had the small, my newer one had the large. Sear blocks looked identical otherwise. If you're ordering springs individually you'll obviously need to know. However, if you order the $21 Apex Carry spring kit, it will come with both springs along with a firmer trigger spring and a slave pin for installing that trigger spring.

 

[Backwoods]

I bought both for my m&p 9. I first installed the DCAEK kit, didn't like how far it set the trigger back, so I ordered the poly FSS kit. Closer to what i was looking for but not as nice as my Xdm trigger for shooting uspsa. I removed the FSS kit and went back to stock. If you are interested in either kit, pm me for price. I will be posting them in the for sale section in the next week or so. The DCAEK was installed and dry fired a handfull of times but never live fired, the FSS has 150 rounds thru it.

 

[swbrian]

I've also lightly sanded out where the striker block slides which really improved the smoothness.

You mean the whole length of the striker??? Any pics? Thanks.

 

[mb66]

Not where the striker goes, but the striker block. You have to remove both parts to do it though.

This guy's video is a little on the low budget side and his illustrations remind me of Tim Russert on election night (God I miss him) but he gets the information across very well. Speed ahead to the 20 minute mark:
Smith and Wesson M&P Shield trigger job and complete break down (Part 1) - YouTube

 

[Rastoff]

You mean the whole length of the striker??? Any pics? Thanks.

No, the striker bock channel. Here's a pic:

Part number 6 is the striker block. The hole in the slide, indicated by the blue arrow, is the part he smoothed up.

A little fine polishing in that hole will make the striker block operate smoother which in turn makes the trigger smoother.

 

[chekmate]

Where do you live? If you're anywhere close, even if you're not, you're welcome to come and shoot my gun.

I have both a .40 and .45 M&P. I put the Foward Set Sear kit in my .45 and it makes a dramatic difference. Almost no over travel and the slack is quite small. I highly recommend this kit and like it better than the others Apex offers. Of course it's also the most expensive.

I live in Los Angeles, CA.

I purchased my gun in June 2013. The case it came with states 3144 and my understanding is this reflects manufacturing date of May 24, 2013. The serial number is HPF3xxx. Lastly, the shell casing that came with the gun is May 25, 2013.

I thought it was also weird that my firearm was manufactured in 2013 but has older pieces in it.

Could anyone please let me know if the serial number is consistent with manufacturing date on the case? I'm just trying to understand why the older parts were used in the gun I purchased.

 

[Rastoff]

As I understand it, S&W does what they call a rolling update. Because the "old" parts aren't brokn or unsafe, they keep using them until they run out. So, there is no serial number cutoff for the new parts because they are gradually introduced.

checkmate,
I find your dates to be strange. I was told the date on the blue case was a shipping date. It reflects the date it leaves the factory. Obviously my info is faulty because it seems your gun was test fired after it was shipped. That can't be.

No matter, if you want to take a road trip up to Tehachapi, you can shoot my .45 with the FSS and see if you like it. Kinda far, but I figured I'd offer anyway.