M&P 40 PC Returned from S&W today

[Wicchunter]

Picked up my new Performance Center M&P 40 on March 20th and sent it back on the 24th due to very heavy trigger and absolute lack of accuracy. Could not get any kind of pattern using a rest at 25yds. I use 10 round mags(live in NY) and out of every 10 shots only 7 or 8 would hit a 12"x12" target and they would be all over the paper. Called S&W and they told me to send it back... Said I should be seeing 4" groups at 25yds. They sent me a free shipping label. FedEx delivered back to me today. Inside the box was a work slip that listed the following parts being replaced:
1) M&P CORE screw and plate assembly pack / B01C
2) Screw, BG & C.O.R.E. C REV A / B01B
3) Striker Block Plate
I tried to look up these parts but no success. They don't sound like anything that would address accuracy. Anybody see a repair similar to this or recognize these parts? The trigger does seem to have a better break with a little lighter pull but I don't think it is near the advertised 4.5lb.

Won't get to shoot it before the weekend and I'll be hoping for the best. I've seen a number of threads here where shooters are complaining about poor M&P accuracy... I heard from a reliable source recently that S&W's demand for M&P's is so high they had to sub out some of their parts that they are now having tolerance issues with.

 

[hardluk1]

Guessing what a trigger pull weight is a waist of time . Find a gage borrow , visit a smith or buy one to test with . Only way to really know . How many rounds fired up to this point . To check accuracy shoot from a solid support resting at your wrist , even to rest the frame . Impact will be different but you will know what the handgun can do .

Then you can decide if it still needs work on the PC special

 

[Wicchunter]

Im not guessing at trigger pound number... I have a number of handguns(12) and most are in the 4-5# range and this gun still feels heavier. But as I stated above I can live with it if the accuracy issue is resolved. My post above stated that I did use a rest and the gun was perfectly stable. I shot a 150 rounds over 2 days... I started with Federal American Eagle and stopped shooting at 100 rounds completely frustated( I've been shooting hand guns since 1970 and never had issue like this... And first time I ever sent a gun back for warranty work). Went and bought two boxes of Winchester White Box ammo . Both brand were 180gr fmj. Exact same issue with the WWB ammo.
This is not a shooter issue, I know what I doing when it comes to sighting in a handgun.
By the way, I did borrow a trigger scale before I sdn it in and the pull weight was just over 8#'s . Performance Center advertises this gun at 4.5#. This was my first Performance Center gun and I expected PC level quality.

 

[micocyco]

There's got to be a lemon some time.
I have 9c & shoot 40c at the range both shoot sweet.
Best of luck to you

 

[hardluk1]

I have been shooting since the 70's too and that don't mean poo . I still find my internal trigger gage can be off by more than I think at times . More so as I get older !! .

Its your "feels " remark that makes me grin , so you are still guessing . That's why I still say to use a real trigger pull gage so can tell a S&W guy what it really is and not "feel " what you think it is .

Bottom line is if it ain't right or even close , send it back on there dime but go over the CS talking head next time . Try a supervisor . If its 5lbs and change now and you have not run a few hundred rounds threw it DO SO as it well settle to a lower weight . Then talk about a heavy trigger but not before hand . They do tend to settle to a lower weight . Our 3 m&ps did by more than a 1/2lb .

Till you can bench that pistol and test that trigger after a few hundred rounds have been fired you will not know how accurate it can or how good or bad the trigger is .

 

[Ksimons]

Just a question on NY, do they have a 10lbs trigger pull requirement like MA?

 

[Wicchunter]

Just a question on NY, do they have a 10lbs trigger pull requirement like MA?

No they don't. Just the 10 round mag limit. I live I eastern NY and initially thought my dealer may be using a distributor who also distributes to MA. and got them mixed up.

As far as the gun "settling in" that may be true for the trigger weight but there is no way the 12"+ grouping spread will settle in to 4" which is what customer service told me it should at 25yds. I'm hoping the parts they replaced has an impact on accuracy.

The Lemon comment is reality. I think the demand for these M&P's has S&W spinning and their Quality Control is still evolving.
**** happens.

 

[Prasko]

Have you had or let anyone else shoot it just to make sure it's not shooter error?

Have you tried different weights or brands of ammunition?

Also the parts they listed pertain to the striker block, as it sits under a plate on the CORE models, not under the rear sight. My guess would be they worked on the striker block and channel. If it hangs, it can be detrimental to trigger pull.

90% of the grittiness of the M&P trigger pull comes from the striker block.

 

[Wicchunter]

Have you had or let anyone else shoot it just to make sure it's not shooter error?

Have you tried different weights or brands of ammunition?

Also the parts they listed pertain to the striker block, as it sits under a plate on the CORE models, not under the rear sight. My guess would be they worked on the striker block and channel. If it hangs, it can be detrimental to trigger pull.

90% of the grittiness of the M&P trigger pull comes from the striker block.

Thanks for your input . The answer to your first 2 questions is yes. Except for the bullet weight... 180gr fmj. I kept that constant across the Federal and Winchester ammo.

Your input on the striker plate makes sense. I couldn't tell looking at the first 2 parts they replaced. They may also have done other work to it that didn't require replacing parts but all they listed was the parts that were replaced. The trigger pull is definitely better with a cleaner break. I can live with it.

 

[hardluk1]

How about trying it from a supported rest and see if group size is smaller , closer to 4"

 

[Wicchunter]

How about trying it from a supported rest and see if group size is smaller , closer to 4"

Not sure what you mean by supported rest? Do you mean a rest you strap/clamp the gun into? If that's what you mean I don't have access to one of those. But wish I did.

I was able to make it to the range tonight. Used the same ammo and bench rest I have been using. Result was 5 1/2" groups. That is 7+"s smaller than I was getting before S&W did their thing. Shot a 100 rounds to make sure it wasn't a fluke. Windage spread was about 2"s and elevation accounted for the 5 1/2" spread and I know that was me. Sun was going down and I was having a hard time seeing the dot on the front sight and my old eyes weren't helping. So right now I'm happy with the gun overall. Still not a big fan of the trigger but I'll give that time to settle in as was recommended. If it doesn't grow on me I'll probably go the Apex FSS route I've been reading about. Thanks for all your comments and recommendations.

P.S. Didn't have access to a trigger guage today, probably worth picking one up.

 

[hardluk1]

Shooting with handgun supported , Hand gun on rest wrist on a rest too !
Photo below should get the idea across .

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XNf3ALJM7_A/mqdefault.jpg


Unsupported would be wrist only on the rest.

I test with a full supported hand and handgun from a old adjustable rifle rest and leather filled bags I have used for 40 ears

Glad you and your pistol are starting to shoot better .

 

[Wicchunter]

Shooting with handgun supported , Hand gun on rest wrist on a rest too !
Photo below should get the idea across .

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XNf3ALJM7_A/mqdefault.jpg


Unsupported would be wrist only on the rest.

I test with a full supported hand and handgun from a old adjustable rifle rest and leather filled bags I have used for 40 ears

Glad you and your pistol are starting to shoot better .

Hardluk, thanks for the pic. That's exactly the type of rest I have been using.

 

[Rastoff]

Picked up my new Performance Center M&P 40...

...[S&W] listed the following parts being replaced:
1) M&P CORE screw and plate assembly pack / B01C
2) Screw, BG & C.O.R.E. C REV A / B01B
3) Striker Block Plate
I tried to look up these parts but no success. They don't sound like anything that would address accuracy.

You didn't say in the OP, is your pistol a C.O.R.E. or is it just a regular M&P?

These parts are all on top of the slide in a C.O.R.E. model. They are the plate and screws that would be removed to install a red dot optic. I can't see how they would affect accuracy at all.

This gun is capable of a 3" group from a rest at 25 yards, but that would be after tuning the load to the barrel. A 4" group would be acceptable to me with good factory loads. A 5.5" group at 25 yards would be acceptable to me if I weren't really concentrating, but was still using a rest. A 12" group is unacceptable.

 

[Wicchunter]

Yes, it is the PC model which has the slide cutout and plate. I have no idea why those parts were replaced. I was hoping somebody on this site could tell me. One possibility is the info on my work sheet belonged to someone else's gun because the case I received it back in was someone else's. But I don't know if that's possible because my serial number is on both the work order/parts sheet and the packing sheet.

 

[ggibson511960]

Trigger Backlash

Getting 12 in. groups from one of these guns is imminently possible. In my experience with a couple of S&W polymer guns, trigger control is unique to anything heretofore in the pistol world. By nature they have a lot of backlash, that is, trigger travel after sear release. The guns can do a lot in the interim before the bullet exits the piece. Pulling with the distal joint of the finger instead of the pad of the last digit causes all kinds of zany hijinks. When the sear releases the hand inevitably twists unless one is pulling straight back, an almost impossible geometry. None of this stuff will happen with a well tuned revolver or true single action semi-auto. Polymer pistols are also typically short in length with a low polar moment of inertia about the vertical axis, contributing to twisting left or right on trigger release and firing. These things are not target guns. Almost any cheap revolver will shoot rings around them, single or double action. That's one of the reasons why Smith, Glock, et. al. don't bother with a barrel bushing, choosing simplicity and reliability over gilt edged target accuracy.

 

[Rastoff]

By nature they have a lot of backlash, that is, trigger travel after sear release.

This is called over travel in pistol lingo. Backlash is the error induced in a mechanical system when changing direction of travel.

Also, it is not by nature that they have this flaw. If it were, all striker fired guns would have this issue; they don't. Just installing the Apex Forward Set Sear (FSS) kit shows us that the over travel can be easily reduced. In the case of the M&P, I'm sure it's just a built in design feature to make manufacturing easier.

 

[Wicchunter]

Ggibson and Rastoff, thank you for the education. This is my first striker fired pistol and maybe I've had the wrong expectations for this gun even though I know S&W did "fix" something in this gun to get the groupings down to 5 1/2"s. And that grouping number was all elevation... It was twilight and I was having trouble seeing to dots on the front and rear sight... So I was guessing when they were lined up and expected a vertical spread. Windage wise the pattern was only about 2"s wide.
Anyway, I did order the Apex FSS kit today. Everything I've read about this kit sounds like a no brainer. I'll install it after I've given the gun some time with the current set up.

 

[Wicchunter]

Update

I called S&W today because the parts list didn't make sense on what they did to correct the accuracy. Turns out they also had to replace the barrel. Didn't have specifics on why.