M&P 9 2016

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westtexas gunner

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So as of 2016 is the Fs M&P 9 still having trigger and barrel/accuracy issues that is everyone knows the pistol for or did they fix these issues on this pistol?
 
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there have been ongoing improvements to the trigger etc. my FS 9 and my 9 compact both have good triggers and very good accuracy for service guns. if you expect custom 1911 performance in these you will probably be disappointed, compared to Glock you will probably be pleased. mine were excellent right out of the box...
 
Sounds good I was just wondering if the kinks were worked out of this pistol that "supposedly" plagued it?
 
i know the early triggers had a lot of complaints. most of the accuracy complaints i've seen seem to be inexperienced shooter issues to me. the main issue i see currently is a lack of quality control at the factory. The occasional gun with a problem gets sold and the buyer ends up sending it back once or twice to get it made right. fortunately there are few of those but it still shouldn't happen.
 
Depends what kind of performance you're looking for. They have tweaked the reset, but the trigger is the trigger. It's not all that good, but it's perfectly acceptable as a general duty gun and easily fixed by a gunsmith or using Apex parts.

As for accuracy, you are rolling the dice -- period. Apologists will always blame the shooter, and often it is the fault of the shooter... but definitely not always. I will say that some of them exhibit abysmal accuracy, and that includes current production guns. Read the thread about the Apex aftermarket barrel and you can see my before and after pics of my Performance Center gun that I just bought new recently. This is the same gun that FedEx is dropping off to me tomorrow, returned from S&W with a note saying that the gun is fine despite the fact that I'm shooting 12"+ groups bench rested at 25 yards. I also have a VTAC9 that shoots mediocre but okay. I have a buddy with an older FS9 that shoots very well and another friend with a two year old 5" 9 Pro that shoots marginal at best. I previously owned an older 9c that was very accurate. There are other forums that are populated by extremely well-seasoned competition shooters that complain about new production guns (manufactured within the past couple of years at most) shooting patterns instead of groups. Perhaps we have been the victim of some seriously bad luck, but there are way too many accounts of poor accuracy for it be chalked up to merely the occasional lemons leaving the factory.

Here is my advice, if you can shoot it before you buy it, do so... obviously this is almost always not an option. If you can't, then budget an extra $200 for an Apex barrel... if you don't need it, then bonus for you. If, however, you're not the type of shooter who will notice the difference between a gun that groups 0.5" vs one that groups 5" when shot at 10 yards (and this is not meant to be an insult so please don't take it as such), then buy one and enjoy it. The ergos are great, and the recoil impulse is soft. The trigger can be made quite good, and there are plenty of aftermarket do-dads and holsters available for it.
 
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my FS is a 2015, i have limited experience so wont say how the trigger is compared to other brands/models but i am fine with it. As for accuracy, again not sure what is expected of this gun but i am more than happy with the results at 10 yards.
Guess i cant say what it's like say at 20-25 yds (i intend to play around soon on that) but at least for self defense ranges mine sure seems fine.
Just my .02
 

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Ranger17 said:
my FS is a 2015, i have limited experience so wont say how the trigger is compared to other brands/models but i am fine with it. As for accuracy, again not sure what is expected of this gun but i am more than happy with the results at 10 yards.
Guess i cant say what it's like say at 20-25 yds (i intend to play around soon on that) but at least for self defense ranges mine sure seems fine.
Just my .02
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Numerous people have quoted online that S&W CS has told them 3" at 25 yards is what it should be shooting. I haven't asked them personally, though, so it's hearsay.
 
TacticalReload said:
Numerous people have quoted online that S&W CS has told them 3" at 25 yards is what it should be shooting. I haven't asked them personally, though, so it's hearsay.
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thx for info.
With my grandpa eyesight and still newbie status, if i can hit 3" at 25 yds whether its my FS 9 or my Buckmark .22 i'll be happy lol.

Seriously, at those distances as the vision is not awesome, i work more to have consistency in my results. I will post some pix once i get out to the family property and try more than the 10yds i'm limited to at my local indoor range.
 
Unless you're shooting from a rested position (sandbags, etc.), it's likely that 99% of the gun owners out there cannot consistently hold 3" groups at 25 yards offhand with a pistol. However, it's a measure of the ultimate accuracy of the pistol and not the shooter when using a rest.

With a rest, my Performance Center M&P9 shoots 12"+ at 25 yards. My VTAC9 shoots around 5" at 25 yards. My buddies 9L Pro hasn't been benchrest tested at that distance, but I would estimate around 7" at the same distance. These are just examples of guns that aren't really up to snuff, IMO. I installed an Apex semi-drop in barrel into my PC gun, and with that barrel it shoots 1.5" groups. Same gun, same ammo, same distance, same day, same targets... just different barrel. As an FYI, I've tried the factory VTAC barrel in the PC gun to see if it would shrink the 12" groups and it did not. I've tried all bullet weights, different brands, and different power levels (+P and non +P). As a point of comparison, all the Glocks, S&W revolvers, H&Ks, SIGs, etc. that I have tested will shoot about 3" groups or less.

This is the reason why I said that if someone is they type of shooter that will never think twice about shooting 5" groups at 10 yards max offhand, then there won't ever appear to be an issue.

However, to the OP... this whole debate has been hashed out in depth in other threads here and elsewhere. Some people say they have an accurate gun and that the complainers are wrong. Others say they have a really inaccurate gun and attempt to prove it. The thread about the Apex barrels is a good place to start. Search it out, read up, and make your own decision about it. There probably really isn't a need for us to go through it all again.
 
westtexas gunner said:
So as of 2016 is the Fs M&P 9 still having trigger and barrel/accuracy issues that is everyone knows the pistol for or did they fix these issues on this pistol?
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I guess we walk in different circles. The very early M&P 9mm, back in 2004, had an issue with the barrel that was updated early on. As someone said, the trigger is what it is. The reset has been updated, but not much else. It's a decent enough trigger for a cheap gun.

TacticalReload said:
...it's likely that 99% of the gun owners out there cannot consistently hold 3" groups at 25 yards offhand with a pistol.
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I would say that 100% of shooters can't hold a 3" group at 25 yards while standing offhand. At least that's what I see regularly at the range. I would love to meet someone who could do it regardless of the gun.

Shoot, 99% of the shooters in the US can't hold a 3" group at 3 yards.
 
Rastoff said:
I would say that 100% of shooters can't hold a 3" group at 25 yards while standing offhand. At least that's what I see regularly at the range. I would love to meet someone who could do it regardless of the gun.
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I was trying to be generous. :-P
 
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My MP9 Pro is back at S&W for sight misalignment 2 " off at 10 yards. Accuracy was great with hole touching hole. SO Im guessing the only problem with mine is the sights are off and need to be set. The accuracy seemed right on with groups. It was manufactured in March 2016 as per S&W. Trigger isn't the best I've felt. Hope that improves with use.only fired about 70 rounds. Hopefully they will get the front sight centered as it should have been and set it up correctly as it should have been. Hoping for good things! Let's give them a fair chance.
 
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He's saying the front sight isn't centered. If it's visually not centered, it's completely plausible that he's not pushing it left.

2" at 10 yards with a 6.5" sight radius is barely over 1/32". 2 * 6.5 / (3 * 12 * 10) This is not much sight movement at all.
 
I have 3 full size MP 9's. One is a pro. Two of them have centered front and rear sights (Warren and Sevigny, respectively) and one has Trijicon HD's.

The MP (new vintage Pro Series) has the HD front sight not totally centered in the dovetail. In fact, when it is perfectly centered, it doesn't print centered groups. With the front slightly off center, it prints centered groups.

That's my only beef with the MP's. I don't have the accuracy issues with them, and I trust my life to one. Funny note...when I borrowed the MP sight pusher at the range the day I noticed that the sight didn't shoot centered, I told two other staff members there about it, that also carried MP 9 FS'. They had HD's on their carry guns, we looked at them, and they were off center too! Something odd going on there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Exactly but not my shooting had an instructor shot with me same 2" left. not jerking the trigger. front sight not in center from factory.
 
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TacticalReload said:
He's saying the front sight isn't centered. If it's visually not centered, it's completely plausible that he's not pushing it left.

2" at 10 yards with a 6.5" sight radius is barely over 1/32". 2 * 6.5 / (3 * 12 * 10) This is not much sight movement at all.
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Exactly, Had an instructor shoot with me and he had same issue. Own 4 other handguns not one is off. Not jerking trigger. The front sight is not centered.
 
Sherman A. House said:
I have 3 full size MP 9's. One is a pro. Two of them have centered front and rear sights (Warren and Sevigny, respectively) and one has Trijicon HD's.

The MP (new vintage Pro Series) has the HD front sight not totally centered in the dovetail. In fact, when it is perfectly centered, it doesn't print centered groups. With the front slightly off center, it prints centered groups.

That's my only beef with the MP's. I don't have the accuracy issues with them, and I trust my life to one. Funny note...when I borrowed the MP sight pusher at the range the day I noticed that the sight didn't shoot centered, I told two other staff members there about it, that also carried MP 9 FS'. They had HD's on their carry guns, we looked at them, and they were off center too! Something odd going on there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Not the issue with mine. when the instructor used the sight pusher the rear sight had to be pushed extreme right with the rear sight starting to stick out the side to hit on center. If that is the way they are i don't want it. Period. Dawson precision (Sent Pictures) and the gunsmith both told me send it back something wrong.
 
MichiganScott said:
Probably two inches low-left. You can't adjust out 2" at ten yards and not have the sight hanging off the pistol.
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Then what's the answer ? Please don't say its trigger jerk cause its not. Shot all shots nearly hitting each other 5 to be exact . Instructor shot the same way with it.
 
M&P 9 2016

Raiderse said:
Not the issue with mine. when the instructor used the sight pusher the rear sight had to be pushed extreme right with the rear sight starting to stick out the side to hit on center. If that is the way they are i don't want it. Period. Dawson precision (Sent Pictures) and the gunsmith both told me send it back something wrong.
Click to expand...



Yes, that sounds screwy! Is the barrel not drilled concentrically?
 
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Sherman A. House said:
Yes, that sounds screwy! Is the barrel not drilled concentrically?
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Actually I have no idea. I hope they fix or replace it and get it back quickly. It is a brand new Pistol. We were shooting nice tight groups but about 2" left. Dawson Precision said it may be the barrel May not be but the gunsmith did tell me if the front sight is off by a little it means a lot at the rear sight. He felt that was the problem. Who knows. All I know if they tell me thats how they are, its gone. my Beretta, Cz's and Walther are dead on with from the factory. I was hoping the front sight just needed to be centered. I figured Smith and wesson wasn't setting or firing their pistols. Maybe they need to charge $50 more and have them quality checked?
 
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I have a newer L/E MP 9 sku 151215 with 2 dimple barrel and all updates it shoots real good crisp trigger pull which I think will get better Iam happy . My son sent his older M/P 9 back with old type barrel they replaced and went over the gun it has a very nice trigger for what they are he L/E and they went over his gun
 
Sherman A. House said:
Hit them up, I'm sure they'll fix it.
Click to expand...

I wish people would stop saying this since it doesn't always happen. At least not on the first try.

The fact is that these guns have very loose tolerances. It's possible that they are stacking in a way that is causing the shots to go wide. The front sight has WAY more room to drift than the rear... that's where I would go if it needed more than the rear could tolerate without running out of slide width.

Either that or hit up S&W... maybe they'll fix it. ;-)
 
triaxle said:
I have a newer L/E MP 9 sku 151215 with 2 dimple barrel and all updates it shoots real good crisp trigger pull which I think will get better Iam happy . My son sent his older M/P 9 back with old type barrel they replaced and went over the gun it has a very nice trigger for what they are he L/E and they went over his gun
Click to expand...

S&W Customer Service told me my M&P9 5" was manufactured in March of 2016. Its not in need of any update , it is a very new pistol. If this is considered "normal" and or if this is an issue which has showed up on multiple firearms These are surely inferior to anything else in it's price range. Odd thing is I Never read or saw a bad review. This should not be happening on new firearms. This firearm cost virtually as much as a 92 Beretta and very close to my Walther PPQ or Cz 75 SP-01. If these firearms are supposed to be like this Smith and Wesson should stop production before they put themselves out off business. They will have ONE SHOT for correction with me. This is a brand new firearm and if I have to send it back the second time. It's gone and I will never purchase another S&W Product. I will give them the chance. I'd like to buy a 4.25" model also but I will wait to see how this one is handled.
And as some have stated "accuracy is comming in aftermarket Barrels"? If I have to put a new barrel in a $565 pistol to make it accurate, they can keep it. Every review on-line, Youtube etc. Says it is a nice shooter. I just can't believe its common. And as far as the trigger being improved? It is the worst trigger I have ever felt. What were the earlier ones like?
 
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If you haven't seen any reviews that are negative, specifically about accuracy, then you haven't looked hard enough. Granted, the accuracy issues don't revolve around off-center POA/POI problems.

Like I mentioned above, there is a WIDE variation of almost all aspects of this pistol. Some triggers are decent, some are terrible. Some have very noticeable reset, some can be barely felt. Some are accurate, some are wildly inaccurate. Some have off-center front sights. Some trigger pulls are very heavy. It's been noted that the sight dovetails vary quite a bit in size from one gun to another. There is even a weird variety of parts that seem to make their way into various pistols -- including older parts that have been "updated" years ago, apparently, based on some reports.

It's likely that, if the S&W tech's shooting is worth its salt, he will notice that the sights are off and will drift them accordingly. It's possible that it won't happen, though... only time will tell. If your gun is accurate except for shooting left, I'd consider yourself lucky. The trigger pull is reasonably easily remedied either by free with some work on the sear and striker block done by yourself or buy spending more $ for Apex parts. I know putting more money into this gun is not palatable to you, but you'll need to make the decision to either double-down on your investment to get this gun more to your liking... or dump it at a loss or deal with it as is.
 
TacticalReload said:
If you haven't seen any reviews that are negative, specifically about accuracy, then you haven't looked hard enough. Granted, the accuracy issues don't revolve around off-center POA/POI problems.

Like I mentioned above, there is a WIDE variation of almost all aspects of this pistol. Some triggers are decent, some are terrible. Some have very noticeable reset, some can be barely felt. Some are accurate, some are wildly inaccurate. Some have off-center front sights. Some trigger pulls are very heavy. It's been noted that the sight dovetails vary quite a bit in size from one gun to another. There is even a weird variety of parts that seem to make their way into various pistols -- including older parts that have been "updated" years ago, apparently, based on some reports.

It's likely that, if the S&W tech's shooting is worth its salt, he will notice that the sights are off and will drift them accordingly. It's possible that it won't happen, though... only time will tell. If your gun is accurate except for shooting left, I'd consider yourself lucky. The trigger pull is reasonably easily remedied either by free with some work on the sear and striker block done by yourself or buy spending more $ for Apex parts. I know putting more money into this gun is not palatable to you, but you'll need to make the decision to either double-down on your investment to get this gun more to your liking... or dump it at a loss or deal with it as is.
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Honestly I haven't seen any bad reviews. Maybe I should have checked out the forums first. It is on everyones top ten list for 9mm pistols. Also, Hickok45 and about any Youtube review I watched was great firearm maybe trigger a bit stiff but other than that. Even one that had a 21000 round review. No parts replaced yet.
Putting another $150 in an Apex Trigger kit is just not a good investment as far as I can see . This is not a $350 firearm. My M&P seemed to function well as far as slide and feeding/ejecting. S&W CSR stated "This is a competition gun, it shouldn't be like that." I am hoping of the best but actually from local gunships I have heard that S&W's Customer Service can be terrible. In all fairness as a stated I have to give them a chance. Then i will form my opinions of S&W. Not my first firearm won't be my last either . But it is my first S&W. It actually shot decent groups just left. the trigger is a bit funky I admit but every thing I have read says it will improve with use. Odd thing is I probably would cost S&W one penny more to put a good trigger in the M&P line. Especially the so called Competition Guns. If they don't correct the issue it will go back until corrected then I will sell it. If it isn't corrected on the first trip it will return until corrected because I won't sell a firearm shooting like it is. I want to be fair to everyone. If it comes back corrected on the first try I will keep it and enjoy it.As far a tolerances... I haven't held ANY Polymer framed pistol that you couldn't get a rattle of free play or sloppiness in the slide. My Cz's and Beretta are very tight and smooth. My Walther has some rattle in the slide , Every Glock I have had in my hands has a rattle in the slide and that goes for HK, CZ (polymer only), Canik, etc. I was told by a dealer EVERY polymer frame Pistol has looser tolerances that metal framed pistols. From what I have seen I have to believe him.

So far, S&W Customer Service has been good about things.
One thing I do find odd is that Walther had my PPQ back to me within 7 days of sending it to them. S&W indicated it could be 4 to 8 weeks even before I sent it to them. This in itself indicates to me that have way more issues to deal with than Walther.
 
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