M&P 9C with serious accuracy issues...

[hAkron]

I have an M&P 9c that I think, based on the sticker on the box, was made Aug 26 2013. I took it out to fire it for the first time today, and the accuracy was miserable. At 7.5 yards I could get maybe 5 out of 10 shots on a 10" target. I thought maybe it was me, or the ammo, but the other guns I had with me shot the same ammo just fine, so it has to be the gun. I know there were some accuracy issues on some of the M&Ps but I was curious if that date of manufacture falls into the 'bad' range. Can anybody elaborate on what the issues are with some of these guns?

 

[jstanfield103]

One reason I got rid of my 9C, plus I wanted a FS. If I would have kept it I would have bought a StormLake Barrel for it.

 

[smitret]

Accuracy issue

I have an eight year old FS 9mm.

Finally came to the conclusion it didn't group well enough.

Called S-W today to see about a improved barrel.

They told me if I wanted a new barrel to contact Storm Lake as they couldn't keep up with demand so they quit supporting the MP's with the older design rifling.

A current model they don't sell parts for.

My initial thought was trade for a Glock but too much money.

Called Brownell's and ordered a Storm Lake barrel.

$151+ shipping to fix a pistol that I think S-W should have at least offered a new style barrel at a discount because I'm fixing their problem.

I don't complain much but you ought to be able to get parts for a pistol still in the catalog.

smitret

 

[Rastoff]

I thought maybe it was me, or the ammo, but the other guns I had with me shot the same ammo just fine, so it has to be the gun.

This is not a logical conclusion. Just because you shoot one gun well doesn't mean you'll shoot all guns well. Just because ammo works well in one gun, doesn't mean it will work well in all guns.

Did you shoot the gun from a rest? Until you do that, there's no way to tell if it's you or the gun. Further, when you shot the other guns, what was the size of your groups?

They told me if I wanted a new barrel to contact Storm Lake as they couldn't keep up with demand so they quit supporting the MP's with the older design rifling.

Are you the original owner?

 

[Venenoindy]

I have an eight year old FS 9mm.

Finally came to the conclusion it didn't group well enough.

Called S-W today to see about a improved barrel.

They told me if I wanted a new barrel to contact Storm Lake as they couldn't keep up with demand so they quit supporting the MP's with the older design rifling.

A current model they don't sell parts for.

My initial thought was trade for a Glock but too much money.

Called Brownell's and ordered a Storm Lake barrel.

$151+ shipping to fix a pistol that I think S-W should have at least offered a new style barrel at a discount because I'm fixing their problem.

I don't complain much but you ought to be able to get parts for a pistol still in the catalog.

smitret

I'm not very happy with S&W myself, I sent back my Pro 5 inch due to a heavy trigger and came came just as bad. It's just too much to transition back to Glock very disappointing experience as CS initially treat me like I was stupid until I show them their own specs on their gun. Not what I expected trying to support an American manufacturer.

 

[hAkron]

This is not a logical conclusion. Just because you shoot one gun well doesn't mean you'll shoot all guns well. Just because ammo works well in one gun, doesn't mean it will work well in all guns.

Did you shoot the gun from a rest? Until you do that, there's no way to tell if it's you or the gun. Further, when you shot the other guns, what was the size of your groups?

These are good points, but allow me to elaborate on my situation -
This is the same ammo that I've been reloading for some time and it shoots reasonably well in lots of other guns I have, including comparable striker fired guns - S&W Shield, Glock 26, full sized M&P 9, Glock 17, Glock 19, CZ P-07, as well as dozens of other hammer fired guns.

I didn't shoot it from a proper rest, but when's I saw the inaccuracy I knelt down and braced the gun against the bench and the gun was still all over the place.

I had my CZ PCR with me so I tried it next to see if it was me or the ammo, and at the same distance, with the same ammo, first 3 rounds into the center of the bullseye, all holes touching.

Even my S&W shield was shooting predictably well with all shots on target.

It would be impractical for me get a second M&P 9c to see if it's just something with the way I shoot the M&P compact, so failing that, I think my testing is about as conclusive as I'm able to do on my own.

 

[Prasko]

Have someone else shoot it?

 

[Llando88]

My thoughts are that most 9mm M&Ps shoot great, but some don't.

I'm not enough of a gunsmith to understand why that is. And yet "my M&P9 does not group well" threads continue to be seen, from time to time across the gunternet.

I freely admit, I'm not capable of shooting a 95-5X on a B-8 at 25 yards. However, my FS9 shot so oddly that I surveyed the market for new SFA pistols, and ended up buying another brand that I feel will be more consistent.

For me, life is too short to worry about a gun you are not happy with.

As to your question, I've not really seen anything conclusive that says S&W knows what the accuracy is in the 9mms, and what they did to fix it. The includes rifling changes, seer profile changes, etc. etc. over the years.

I'd be glad to hear otherwise, though.

Good luck, hope it works out for you.

 

[Prasko]

I've had one issue with accuracy with my M&P 9 full size and they replaced the barrel, few other things, and sent it back to me.

It was a 2012 production gun.


I sent it back because I knew it was the gun and not me. I had the thing tested on a machine rest.

But again, S&W updated the barrels in mid-late 2012 and I now own a compact, shield, and fs.

None have issues with accuracy.

If you think the gun is at fault, have other people shoot it, or have it tested.

 

[Fastbolt]

If it were me, I'd ask for a shipping label, write a brief (but concise) letter explaining my concerns (to include with the gun in the appropriate shipping box), and give the pistol repair people the opportunity to handle it.

I'd not think I could resolve my concerns while dealing with some customer service person answering the phones. It's not like the pistol repair techs are going to call the customer service people and ask what they ought to do when they receive a gun for a warranty issue.

If a particular problem or concern wasn't reasonably addressed, then I'd ask to be transferred up-level.

 

[78Staff]

If it were me, I'd ask for a shipping label, write a brief (but concise) letter explaining my concerns (to include with the gun in the appropriate shipping box), and give the pistol repair people the opportunity to handle it.

I'd not think I could resolve my concerns while dealing with some customer service person answering the phones. It's not like the pistol repair techs are going to call the customer service people and ask what they ought to do when they receive a gun a warranty issue.

If a particular problem or concern wasn't reasonably addressed, then I'd ask to be transferred up-level.

I'd agree with this - customer service folks generally won't pony up a free barrel upgrade based on someone saying my gun isn't accurate, but if you send the gun back for repair describing the accuracy issues, perhaps include some sample targets from a rest, etc - pretty sure it will come back with the updated barrel, as well as a slew of other updated parts, ie trigger bar, slide stop, etc.

 

[Prasko]

You can send it back, on S&W's dime, and tell them it's accuracy sucks, but if they test it and it comes to spec, you pretty much lose all credibility with them on further issues.

It's easier and quicker to have someone else shoot it, just to rule out that it's not "new gun" error.

Spec is 6.3" at 21 yards from 3" barrel. It's in the back of the manual.

Also, even though the S&W website says 6.5 lb trigger pull, in my experience, most of them are in the 8lb+ range until they break in. Which may also be causing problems.

 

[Rastoff]

This is the same ammo that I've been reloading for some time and it shoots reasonably well in lots of other guns I have,...

I agree, I don't think it's your ammo either. I was just making a point about logic. Also, there is no correlation between hammer or striker fired and accuracy.

I didn't shoot it from a proper rest, but when's I saw the inaccuracy I knelt down and braced the gun against the bench and the gun was still all over the place.

I would still recommend shooting it from a proper rest, but what you did is better than nothing.

I had my CZ PCR with me so I tried it next to see if it was me or the ammo, and at the same distance, with the same ammo, first 3 rounds into the center of the bullseye, all holes touching.

This is excellent shooting. However, where did the rest of the rounds go?

Even my S&W shield was shooting predictably well with all shots on target.

Based on what you said previously, this was about an 8" group, no?


Everyone gets bent out of shape when someone suggests that their accuracy issues are them rather than the gun. It's extremely rare to hear, "I shoot this gun poorly." It's far more common to hear, "This gun doesn't shoot well." However, if you read through all the threads where people claim to have accuracy issues with their gun, 99% of them are ultimately found to be shooter rather than gun related.

So, don't take this the wrong way. I'm just trying to help you diagnose a potential problem with your gun over the internet. You haven't posted your location, but you're welcome to come to my range and I'll help you with this. I'll even supply the ammo, a rest and another M&P 9mm for you to compare with. I just don't want to see you chasing your tail trying to fix something that isn't broken.

Now, that is not to say your gun doesn't have an issue. The suggestion to get the shipping label from S&W and send it in is a good one. Any reason you don't want to do that?

 

[ultratec00]

I definitely do concur with the below. Some firearms aren't as shooter friendly as others. Doesn't mean they aren't accurate, just means they are not as shooter inherent accurate. The fact the 9C is a double stack mag with a short grip doesn't help. It took a while to tweak my 9C and make it more shooter friendly.

Everyone gets bent out of shape when someone suggests that their accuracy issues are them rather than the gun. It's extremely rare to hear, "I shoot this gun poorly." It's far more common to hear, "This gun doesn't shoot well." However, if you read through all the threads where people claim to have accuracy issues with their gun, 99% of them are ultimately found to be shooter rather than gun related.

 

[jstanfield103]

I just believe that S&W M&P OEM barrels are more for duty and self defense not accuracy. I usually have replaced my M&P barrels with StormLake barrels for accuracy. I have a 40 FS right now that I really have to concentrate very hard on to hit a steel 8" plate at 20 to 25 yards and with any other gun I can hit it all day easily. I have a 9mm conversion barrel coming for it and looking forward to seeing if that helps. If it does then I will probably order a new 40 barrel for it also.
Just my thoughts on the accuracy.

Just put the StormLake barrel in (9mm Conversion) what a difference on accuracy. I had no trouble hitting the 8" plate at all. Big difference from the OEM 40 cal. barrel. Now I have to buy a SL 40 barrel for it. Love It

 

[Fastbolt]

...
Also, even though the S&W website says 6.5 lb trigger pull, in my experience, most of them are in the 8lb+ range until they break in. Which may also be causing problems.

The engineering spec for the trigger pull also lists an allowable +/- of 2 lbs. Mine got lighter with use.

 

[sophie]

I have 2 S&W 9c's. The first one I bought I believe was dated 6-13 and had the H on the trigger bar which from what I have read was the latest modifications to the pistols. After shooting about 5 hundred rounds the accuracy improved as did the trigger eventually down to right at 6 1/2 lb pull. No modifications done to this pistol.
I bought the second 9c several months ago and it has a date of 12-13 and has the H on the trigger bar. It felt like at least a 10 lb trigger pull and so I invested in a Lyman Digital trigger guage and sure enough the trigger was over 9 lb pull and close to 10 at times. I decided to shoot it with this heavy trigger and shot maybe 100 rds through the gun and the trigger still over 9 lbs pull. While shooting the pistol I noticed I was shooting to the left at 7 yards and then I noticed the rear sight was loose and moving and was over to the left a little. S&W uses red locktite on these tiny 1/16 hex site screws and you couldn't move the screw if you tried. I decided to put the Apex D/CAEK kit in the pistol and when I got ready to remove the rear sight I actually worked it to the right and got it off the slide without even moving the set screw and was careful with the USB block, spring, and little cover spacer. After installing the parts it brought the trigger down to 5 1/2 lb pull. I am waiting on the polymer trigger from Apex and will install the one piece trigger to see how I like it. I finally got the little screw out of the sight and cleaned the red locktite from the screw and inside the site. I will use blue locktite once I shoot this gun from a sandbag and secure the rear sight.

I guess I put more information in this post than I needed but I have never felt like the short barrel guns were target guns as such but they do need to group well at 7-10 yards to have confidence in the gun.

Like suggested in other posts, I would shoot the pistol from sandbag or rest and maybe change ammunition and don't forget to check the rear sight.

 

[walkin' trails]

OP, I bought a new M&P 9c that was built during the same time-frame as yours. I had some serious feeding and extraction issues, and sent it back under warranty. The shop polished the feed ramp and chamber and sent it back. The problems continued even with close to 1000 rounds run through it. I sent it back a second time. It came back with a new barrel and probably some springs. The gun seems reliable now. Your pistol's problems might have something to do with quality control during the hysteria that followed Sandy Hook.

In your post, you said that you shot other guns that day with no accuracy issues - were they M&Ps or had similar trigger mechanisms? A work associate went out recently with a bag full of 1911s and his new S&W Shield .40. He described the accuracy of the Shield as dismal compared to the 1911 - anyway, asked him to show me his firing grip. He was shooting with a two hand "tea cup" hold among other things. My suggestion was to change his grip, and consider that the Shield trigger was not a 1911. He went to shoot the following weekend and reported that his groups had much improved. Before you do anything, I would first have another shooter fire it and see how they do. While my pistol had serious problems that had to get corrected, its accuracy was never an issue.

 

[Doug M.]

Had not heard of such issues with the 9C. The 9FS not only had some barrel issues, but the slide dimensions were inconsistent and presented a lot of problems. It's been heavily discussed on P-F, but I don't belong to it and I don't think I have the string's URL saved.

 

[lmacrichter]

When it comes to CS at S&W it all depends on who you talk to. You can call 3 or 4 times and get 3 or 4 answers. I hopr you didn't give up with just one call.