M&P Info Needed

[VAPA]

I came across a nice M&P in a LGS today and could use some info about it. It has a small logo on the left side, nothing on the right, appears to be in very good condition with a new pair of S&W walnut grips.
I assume it's a pre model 10, any more information would be appreciated.
Priced at $450.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Got any pictures? Mushroom end ejector rod knob? Serial number or at least the first 3 digits. Are you sure there was no stamp on the right side? The M&P logos moved to the right sideplate in 1936 or so. So, it has to be before that. There was a Made In USA stamp on the right side starting 1922 and during WWI there were no stamps. So, it has to be from before WWI.

 

[Targets Guy]

Does it look anything like this?

 

[VAPA]

I went ahead and bought it, SN is 635814, when I took the grips off I found a wooden block wedged in between the frame and mainspring.
Logo on left side, made in USA on right.
The bluing is very good, almost too good for and old gun but all the lettering is still crisp.

 

[JP@AK]

Interesting gun from the 1930s. I'd be suspicious of that finish - perhaps professionally done, but I don't think it is original.

Moreover, the rear-most sideplate screw seems to have been replaced. In the picture, it appears to have a flat head. On a 1930s M&P it would have a round head. They did not go to the flat head screw until around 1947, past mid-year if I recall correctly.

The stocks are not S&W; I'm pretty sure of that. Most certainly they are not period correct. Target stocks were not introduced until after the war. These imitations also have the speed loader cut, which didn't appear on actual S&W stocks until the late 1970s.

 

[Jtown]

Stocks are nice looking but I agree with Jack they are not S & W.
Walt

 

[Jim Watson]

I'm still wondering about the purpose of the block behind the spring.

 

[Absalom]

Interesting gun from the 1930s. I'd be suspicious of that finish - perhaps professionally done, but I don't think it is original.

Moreover, the rear-most sideplate screw seems to have been replaced. In the picture, it appears to have a flat head....

The strange lighting in the first two photos made me suspicious of the finish at first, too.

But looking closely at what’s visible of the sideplate in the third photo, I now tend toward original. Not only is the screw hole extremely sharp-edged, the blue has exactly the right appearance, and not the weird washed-out shininess which seemed to prevail in the other pictures.

VAPA, any chance for pictures in more natural light?

 

[VAPA]

I removed the block, seems to function fine without it.
The grips have the S&W logo but my guess they are knockoffs.
The gun cleaned up well, taking it to the range in the morning.

 

[VAPA]

Here are some additional photos.
Would the finish back in the 30's been a high gloss?

 

[JP@AK]

Others are more expert on this than I am, but I don't ever recall seeing the Carbonia blue from the 1930s look this way. The metal is highly polished and the blue is deep, more like the bright blue of the 1950s on the .357 Magnum/Model 27 and the .44 Magnum/Model 29.

 

[Absalom]

Here are some additional photos.
Would the finish back in the 30's been a high gloss?

Yep, I'm as positive as one dares to be based on such photos that it's original. For comparison, here are some photos of #662xxx from 1937 (not my gun).

 

[VAPA]

Is there ship date info available for this era firearm?
My limited research tells me "Made in USA" on right side began in 1922, S&W logo moved to right side 1936ish, based on this info I date it 1922 to 1936, anything more specific would be appreciated.

 

[Targets Guy]

I vote for a refinish. Wouldn't matter to me as long as it shoots good. Nice looking revolver.

 

[Absalom]

Is there ship date info available for this era firearm?
My limited research tells me "Made in USA" on right side began in 1922, S&W logo moved to right side 1936ish, based on this info I date it 1922 to 1936, anything more specific would be appreciated.

Production hit 600,000 sometime in 1929. In the Depression, sales dropped significantly and extrapolating from known serials and shippping date correlations is less reliable. But around 1931 would be a reasonable guess for yours.

If you want to know exactly, you have to spend $75 for a history letter.

Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation - Letter Process - Insuring that the rich history of Smith & Wesson will continue for generations to come

 

[hkcavalier]

I don't have an M&P from that era, but I do have a K-22 made just after (S/N 6385xx). It's much shinier than my M&P from 1917.

I think what makes us suspicious are the replaced screw, grips, and the wooden block. Pretty strange that someone would do that level of tinkering on what looks like a barely fired, never carried gun.

 

[rct269]

HOW CLOSE IS CLOSE?

As close as I come with shipping dates is 594451 on March 8, 1929 on the low side; and 640816 on February 8, 1932 afterwards.

So---not necessarily, but perhaps likely, yours went out in between about wherever your extrapolation says it did. This sort of thing is generally known as fun for the feeble minded by some---but it's fun for regular folks too

Now get your letter, and see how close you came.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[rct269]

HERE GOES NOTHING!!

The purpose of the wooden block is to prove-----beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I have no engineering education in my background whatsoever----NONE!! That is, except when I pop off like this and well meaning friends take pity on me and explain the real reason.

Okay---a little background: Each and every gun that came to live here got a bath---first class---came all apart (every single piece except for barrel and action studs on a gun like this), everything got soaked/scrubbed/rinsed and stuffed back together.

So there was this single shot, and when it got stuffed back together it didn't work---the hammer wouldn't go to full cock---the spring was too short. I began my diagnostic routine----sitting and staring. I finally noticed a little notch in the frame just a bit above the notch where the bottom of the mainspring goes---and where I'd put it. There wasn't anything else to do, so I took the spring out of where it belonged and put it where it didn't belong------in the little notch just above. Well everything worked fine, as light and smooth as silk, and it had a trigger pull to die for!!----way better than any of my regular single shots. I never did find out where that spring came from, but it was too short to fit in that single shot like it should, so they fixed things so it'd fit like it shouldn't----probably one of the first spring kits.

That brings us to this block of wood. It seems as though when you'd cock the hammer, the spring is going to bend from the top of the block----rather than from the notch in the frame down below. It seems like that would have the effect of shortening the effective length of the spring, decreasing the amount of leverage the spring had to overcome your thumb on the hammer----or your finger on the trigger if you were doing the double action thing----and making things lighter. And if that's the way it seems to me, then it probably works exactly opposite of what I said---so give it a try. See how it feels with the block in there---single and double action------and then see how it feels with the block gone-----and tell us what the difference is.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[handejector]

I'm pretty sure the gun is reblued. Not a bad job, but not Factory.

 

[Absalom]

I'm pretty sure the gun is reblued. Not a bad job, but not Factory.

Lee:

Look at my pictures of 662xxx. I didn’t handle that one myself either, but was assured by people whose opinion I respect more than mine that it was original.

What do you think?

 

[handejector]

Lee:

Look at my pictures of 662xxx. I didn’t handle that one myself either, but was assured by people whose opinion I respect more than mine that it was original.

What do you think?

Not great pics, but I don't see any indicators of a refinish.

 

[VAPA]

I agree that it has been refinished by someone who knew what they were doing.
First trip to the range today, the gun is an absolute delight to shoot, the aftermarket grips fit my hands perfectly.
I'm going to enjoy this almost 90 year old piece of history.
Thanks for all you replies, I learned a lot.

 

[Targets Guy]

I can't get real close to yours but would guess it is late 1931 or early 1932.

633616 (a target model) shipped 9/31 and 632396 (non target) shipped 4/31.

 

[ABPOS]

It's beautiful. Congrats on that one. Refinish or not.

 

[Absalom]

Just for the record: I’m still not convinced. I very much respect Lee’s call, and I wouldn’t sign anything saying it’s original. I would not be interested in this gun anyway because of the non-original stocks. But if this had original numbered service stocks in comparable condition and were available for an attractive price, I’d roll the dice on originality of the finish.

 

[VAPA]

Update, I found some correct era reproduction grips from Thailand on ebay that changed the look of the revolver. The fit and finish is really good, the medallion is kinda cheap looking but for $35.99 and free shipping they are nice.

 

[Art Doc]

Very pretty.

 

[daddio202]

Very nice gun even if it has a refinish, it is difficult to top the feeling of shooting pre war long action revolvers. Usually accuracy is great too! Nothing like it. The only thing left to do is to put a round head side plate screw in that back hole now it is without target grips. If want to use the target grips after changing out the screw just put a very shallow divot in the right grip exactly at the spot where grip covers screw. S&W did this for a short period so the existing grips will fit over round headed screw until they decided to put the flat head screws in that spot. Enjoy

 

[VAPA]

Are all round head side plate screws the same?
I know the front one is different.

 

[Muley Gil]

"The stocks are not S&W; I'm pretty sure of that."

"Stocks are nice looking but I agree with Jack they are not S & W."

"The grips have the S&W logo but my guess they are knockoffs."

Folks, I hate to break the news, but I was putting away some gun magazines and there on the front cover of the February 2019 Guns and Ammo was a picture of the new production M19, wearing identical grips. To me, the off center diamond should have been omitted and the checkering centered as well.