M&P - Modified and German Engraved After WWII

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Over the years I have seen more than a handful of these tastefully modified M&Ps with the Red Stag custom grips - more than half of them were engraved. I've always wanted to have one in my collection and finally I was the winning bidder on one. I really like it and would love to hear your thoughts about it. Also, if any of you have another one of these guns, please post it here.





















Thanks for letting me share,
 
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That one is a beauty. Very well executed and detailed engraving, glad you were able to add it to your collection. Those stag grips are spectacular too.

Jeff
SWCA #1457
 
Very very nice! I think that the German engravers are outstanding craftsmen, and your revolver demonstrates their talent and their ability to do just the right amount of engraving! I can't post anything because I have nothing to compare with your beautiful M&P. Congratulations, it should fit in nicely with your fantastic collection of engraved handguns.
 
A great example of a beautiful engraving job done with minimum of tools but a very experienced engraver and perfect layout.

Very simple scroll/leaf & vine pattern, one that is/was very common to German & Austrian engravers.
This one was cut using but one chisel for all the line work.

The Shading was all done with just one 'Liner Tool'. That a graver that cuts multiple parallel lines.
They are commonly used but uncommonly used to their best advantage.
Here the engraver did use it well in that the graver was tipped up onto one edge to start and then rolled down as the cut continued. This produces a single shade line to start but then gradually adds more shading lines as the cut continues.
The engraver can then roll the tool back up again ,,to either side and make those additional shade lines start to fade away and back to just one and then nothing.
It takes practice to do that as well the mind set to want to use the tool that way.
Usually you will see the liner tool used in just making squared end cuts at full tool width here and there to add some(thing) to the pattern.

The background was stippled with a small dia hollow punch. It was used very carefully so as not to cover the engraved line(s) that were first cut to make the scrolls/leaf/and vine elements.
That way the bold cut lines remain and outline those parts of the pattern.
If the stippling is done right up to the leaves & vines, it will visually make them much smaller when viewed and in most instances ruin the final appearance of the pattern.
You can retrieve the look but only by going back and re-cutting all those lines you stippled over. Hard lesson to learn, but that's how it usually works!

Another larger dia hollow punch was used for a couple decorative borders on the gun,,the top strap for example.
Those hollow punches at the time were generally made by the engraver at the bench.
That's the way I was taught and still make them. But most engravers buy them now from supply houses. A couple engravers were shocked that I would take 'precious time' to actually make a punch. Oh well.

The matte pattern on the added rib on the bbl may look like it was done with a machine of some sort, but is actually done by hand with the common Wriggle Cut .
The same engraver cut many know from the Wolf&Klar engraving.

This time it's done with a much wider Flat graver and done with more pressure and very steady & even pressure to ensure the pattern is even when complete.
The two lengthwise borders are cut first by hand. Then the across the rib Wriggle cuts are done, one next to the other.
Lightly scribed guide lines are often placed on the rib at right angle to the length to keep the engravers cuts art at angle to the rib.

The graver will walk off the edge and into the border cut usually and sometimes leave a small burr at the start side border as well.
When the entire length is complete, another cleanup cut is done up and down each border to even them up and remove any/most of those small dings.

This was a common method of matting SxS shotgun and DR bbls up to WW2 in Europe, so it wasn't anything new. Though machine done patterns were used as well.
Different patterns were used, some as simple as going straight up the rib and back down with a fast Wriggle cut.
The metal is soft, like Cold Rold Steel soft. It cuts very easily.
The revolvers cut nicely too.

Wish they all did!
 
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Another time when the "Like" button just isn't enough. I need to express love and adulation on this one!

A few observations; first, it appears to have been born as a plain old mil-Spec M&P, about 1941 or so, perhaps even a Lend Lease gun... it had the lanyard loop swivel which is almost invisibly plugged. Also, I would venture that the ribbed barrel was not original to the gun, rather was added as part of its rebirth.

Immediately post War, the German economy was pretty much in shambles and some of the most talented gunsmiths and engravers in the world were out of work Germans, so I'm sure some such artisan was willing and eager to take a job such as this from some American willing to pay his very reasonable price. This type of exquisite work is not likely to be seen again at anything like the prices offered then, if at any price. It is... words fail me! Too wonderful!

Congratulations on another outstanding find.
Froggie
 
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lovely engraving

Thank you Richard, this is a beautiful example. 2152hq, that is a very good critique. I can understand your points.

This revolver is a well-mannered expression of symmetrical classicism. (:word salad:) The stocks are wonderful and the screws appear to be timed.
 
A great example of a beautiful engraving job done with minimum of tools but a very experienced engraver and perfect layout.

THANK YOU for taking the time to share your expertise. I always love it when you weigh in on any engraved gun. Reading through your detailed and expert analysis on this gun, I can see the engraver setting at his bench performing each of the tasks just as you described.:)

... The matte pattern on the added rib on the bbl may look like it was done with a machine of some sort, but is actually done by hand with the common Wriggle Cut .
The same engraver cut many know from the Wolf&Klar engraving... it's done with a much wider Flat graver and done with more pressure and very steady & even pressure to ensure the pattern is even when complete.

The two lengthwise borders are cut first by hand. Then the across the rib Wriggle cuts are done, one next to the other.
Lightly scribed guide lines are often placed on the rib at right angle to the length to keep the engravers cuts art at angle to the rib.

The graver will walk off the edge and into the border cut usually and sometimes leave a small burr at the start side border as well.

When the entire length is complete, another cleanup cut is done up and down each border to even them up and remove any/most of those small dings.

For those of you that commented on the rib (which was definitely added later), here are a few additional photos:





Thanks to all who have commented... thus far.
 
There is a lot that I like about this one, not the least of which is the fact it was not only beautifully engraved, but carried, used, and appreciated. This one definitely has a history I would love to learn! Those stags are amazing!
 
Richard, very nice as always. Love seeing your acquisitions.
I have some questions about the gun itself.
I want to start with a statement by Roy Jinks.
In "History of Smith & Wesson" he says.......

The most important variation of the .38 M&P is a group of revolvers produced for the British Commonwealth nations. These are identical to the .38 Hand Ejector Model of 1905 Fourth Change, except they were chambered for the .38 S&W instead of the .38 S&W Special cartridge. Because this cartridge was loaded with a 200-grain, round nose, lead bullet, the revolver was nicknamed the .38/200 British Service revolver.

Is your gun a BSR?
Were there .38 M&Ps in .38 S&W that were not BSRs?
Is the box you show correct for this gun?
In SCSW 4th the lowest number I see for a BSR says beginning around 680,000. Your gun 652,268.
History of Smith & Wesson says production began March 11, 1940 but does not list a starting number.
 
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Its SN would put its shipment to probably be in 1936, plus or minus a year. Therefore it could not be a BSR. It is possible that it could have a substituted barrel and cylinder. What are the SNs on the barrel and cylinder?
 
Richard,
First of all congratulations on your new acquisition. It found a very fitting place to be enjoyed and admired.
Were it not for the Red Stag grips, which to me are exhibition quality, I would have never guessed that the engraving was German or Austrian in origin. I found the engraving so pleasing that it had an almost International style not typed to a particular era or location.
Thanks very much for sharing and for the exposure you offer to all.
 
Is your gun a BSR? Were there .38 M&Ps in .38 S&W that were not BSRs?

I know very little about the M&Ps, as I own very few of them. I saw DWalt, responded above with this:

Its SN would put its shipment to probably be in 1936, plus or minus a year. Therefore it could not be a BSR.

Is the box you show correct for this gun? In SCSW 4th the lowest number I see for a BSR says beginning around 680,000. Your gun 652,268. History of Smith & Wesson says production began March 11, 1940 but does not list a starting number.

I do not know if the box is the correct or not. It does not number to the gun, but it is for the correct 5" barrel length. The box SN is 650747, only 1521 SNs lower than the gun.



It was a box that I purchased years ago (for about $35 or so if I recall correctly). I never had anything to put in it, and since I like to store my guns in a period correct box, this one seemed to fit the bill... AND I really like the "patent boxes" - guns just look cool in them. Hopefully, someone will correct me if I've got the wrong era box.:)

...It is possible that it could have a substituted barrel and cylinder. What are the SNs on the barrel and cylinder?

The SN on the barrel and cylinder match, but the SN on the barrel has a "V" in front of it (there is no "V" on the butt SN)... One knowledgeable forum member thinks that it is a Victory model, but that the V was somehow removed from the butt when the gun was prep'd/buffed for engraving.





I have a ship date request into Roy, so hopefully I will find out something that adds a little more light on this...:)

M&P, 5", Blue, 652268
 
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One knowledgeable forum member thinks that it is a Victory model, but that the V was somehow removed from the butt when the gun was prep'd/buffed for engraving.

I am not very knowledgeable, but it makes sense to me that Herman the German engraver did not realize the "V" on the far side of the lanyard loop was part of the serial number.
 
Unfortunately, Roy says that 652268 is "open on the books" so that he cannot help with a ship date... :(

[UPDATE: It seems to be unanimous that the V was removed from the bottom of the grip frame, (most likely in the engraving process) - thank you all. I asked Roy for a ship date for V652268 and he says that it shipped in September 1944. That also means that it probably shipped in one of those plane brown cardboard boxes, rather than the "patent" style box show above.]
 
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652268 is open on the books. I wonder about V652268?
Think it is time for the Victory experts.
V652268 on the barrel.
652268 on the cylinder.
Also think I can see evidence in the photos of a butt swivel.
Would that be consistent with a Victory revolver?
 
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