M&P's WITH NEW TRIGGER PULL

[zelos17]

According to a note/review on the Apex site regarding the upgraded RAM, M&P's June 2012 and newer use a redesigned sear block. No idea how accurate that is.

 

[zerocool]

I wonder if S&W would retro fit our old style M&P pistols with this upgrade? I love the gun but hate the trigger compared to my PPQ. I just don't want to give APEX what they want for their parts. It is ridiculous the price they charge.

...but with their FSS & trigger kit, it feels like a whole new gun with the actual performance and aluminum trigger . Well worth it IMO. Especially if you install it yourself to keep costs down.

But I am interested to feel what S&W's new trigger feels like on a full size or compact.

 

[Wee Hooker]

I wonder if S&W would retro fit our old style M&P pistols with this upgrade? I love the gun but hate the trigger compared to my PPQ. I just don't want to give APEX what they want for their parts. It is ridiculous the price they charge.

If your handy, you can go to Dan Burwell's site and learn how to do your own. No special tools required and the results can be impressive.

 

[Robotech]

Could we get drawings or photos of the old vs. new versions?

I just bought my M&P9 FS in January. SN HAF70**, with a test fire date of 10-08-12, so it's fairly recent. I do feel a slight "hitch" at the reset point, but it's not a very positive indicator, and I have nothing to compare it to to know if it's any different. It would be helpful if S&W could give us serial numbers or manufacturing dates to tell us when updates were made. This might easily become an issue when ordering replacement parts from S&W, let alone knowing what aftermarket parts will work or not.

I had the gun out to the range for the first time yesterday. I don't care for the trigger action AT ALL! Looking closely at some the engagement surfaces in the trigger assembly, I can see why. Nothing has a proper final finish! I can understand the complaints I see on the forums and why so many are swapping in after-market parts, but I'll try some simple polishing first on this one before I start replacing parts and experimenting with different spring values.

The gun was reliable, fits my hand comfortably, and points "naturally". I think it's just going to take a little "tuning" to make it right.

 

[SixShooterFan]

Will S&W offer an upgrade service?

 

[Doublea17]

Got the 40c on Tue. Test date 1/21/13 got a 9c back in Nov. and I'm new to shooting and I can tell the difference not gritty and quick reset on the 40c I really like it and I like my 9c a lot was going to be my EDC if my CCW ever gets here but now looks like the 40c will be.

 

[ActAppalled]

I just picked up a used M&P 9 FS a couple weeks ago and it has a test fire date of Oct 2012. I've shot other M&P's in the past and from what I can tell this is a different trigger. It definitely has a very short and tactile reset. I should be able to compare it to my friends FS 9 shortly to see what the differences are. My only complaint is the gritty take up, but I've been spoiled by my Sig and Kahr which are smooth as butta.

 

[EugeneNine]

In my last armorer recert they told us that the "new" standard "trigger" consists of the Performance Center sear, a new slide stop assembly and a revision to the trigger bar.

The PC sear would seem an obvious refinement.

The revised slide stop assembly ought to help with the "tactile reset" due to it adding some additional pressure against the trigger bar, pushing it inward (left) with a bit more tension. This has been accomplished via adding an inward bend/angle to the bottom rear corner of the right side of the slide stop assembly. Nifty idea, accomplishing their goal (and answering customer demand) of making the trigger bar snap under the sear nose during sear reset a bit more briskly ... and they didn't have to add more parts to do it. Nice.

The new slide stop assembly also incorporates the yellow (painted) wire spring, which is heavier than the previous springs they've used on the slide stop lever assemblies.

The change to the trigger bar wasn't described in detail, except to say they made a modification to it so the addition of the PC sear didn't drop the trigger pull weight below what the original trigger pull weight was intended to be (since the standard M&P is designed to be a service-type trigger, after all).

Last I heard the "new triggers" were being introduced into the 9/.40/.357 guns sometime late last year, but we were told that due to ongoing testing of the .45 trigger bar's revision, the .45's won't be receiving all of the revision until maybe the end of this year.

So if the spring is painted yellow then we have the updated version?

 

[Fastbolt]

So if the spring is painted yellow then we have the updated version?

Depends.

All that might be said (without actually examining the rest of the gun) is that the yellow slide stop assembly spring, if present, is the latest revision. The original wire spring was unpainted, and then it was followed by a red one, and then a light blue one, and then the yellow one.

The red one remained in the 9's when the .40's & .45's received the light blue one, and then the yellow one came about during some further testing of the .357's, and then was selectively used for repair purpose in some .40's. Now it appears they're going to standardize on the yellow spring in all the standard models.

The original slide stop assembly with the yellow painted wire spring was being used before the slide stop assembly was itself recently revised to add the angled bend on the right/rear bottom corner. I replaced a slide stop assembly with the yellow spring in one of my M&P's with the new revised slide stop assembly with not only the yellow spring, but also with the new beveled corner on the right side lever.

Now, for everyone else who is eager to have a noticeably tactile "reset" ...

All this talk of trying to discover the absolute latest & greatest revisions (plural) in any particular production vintage of M&P's is all fine and dandy, but I've been handling and shooting random models made over the last several years, including some pretty recent ones (and including a M&P VTTC 9) ... as well as some that have had the popular aftermarket parts added to them (by armorers) ... and I've listened to other instructors & armorers express their opinions that they've all started to feel pretty much alike when you stand around on the firing line trying the triggers in both dry & live-fire. Especially in dynamic live-fire drills, when you aren't standing around carefully listening and feeling for "tactile trigger reset".

The whole "sear reset issue" may be popular on the internet, and to slow-fire target/competition shooters ... and the market demand for such a feature has prompted S&W to try and meet the perceived desire for this feature ... but shooting to trigger recovery in dynamic, past-paced & demanding training & qual drills seems to be something you hear discussed more often by LE firearms instructors, compared to trigger reset.

I've seen at least my fair share of folks try to keep their fingers on the triggers of their pistols after firing an intentional shot (or shots), trying to hold them at the "reset point", and then experience their guns unexpectedly firing. Sometimes it's seemed it was them unconsciously rocking the triggers during recoil ... or being startled (which having the weapon unexpectedly discharge can really do to someone, yet further lending itself to another "startle response") ... or experiencing a muscle tremor (yip, etc).

Losing balance momentarily (balance destabilization was the popular term for a while), or hand/finger confusion (mixing up tasks being done by one hand with the other) may also be factors. I've known a couple of highly trained and experienced LE folks end up putting holes in things they didn't intend to shoot when their "trigger fingers" mirrored what their other index fingers were being told to do, performing other tasks in high stress situations.

It's just that if the gun fires without the shooter having made a conscious decision to fire that specific round, the round is still going to land somewhere, and the shooter is still going to be responsible for it ... and being in the position of saying that their finger had been deliberately on the trigger, trying to hold the trigger at the "reset point" when the weapon discharged, isn't something anyone probably wants to try to explain. Especially in a legal proceeding.

Hey, just some thoughts. Sorry for going off-topic, but I sometimes feel this whole "trigger reset" thing is often blown out of proportion and taken out of context by some folks.

 

[Rogue Tom]

Just picked up an M&P 45 fs today with born on date of Jan 2013.
This new gun has a slightly gritty trigger pull. It also feels as if the final bit of the trigger pull is slightly heavy. The reset is definitely much shorter and has more of a click feel when pulling the trigger than my 4 other M&Ps that are all 4-5 years old.

The older pistols are challenging to feel the reset well. I have been focusing on that alot over the last year when I go to the range.
While this new trigger on the 45 is a little gritty, I expect it will begin to smooth out with use. My older M&Ps all have atleast 2-3000 rds shot through them and now have a buttery smooth pull.

 

[SixShooterFan]

Depends.

All that might be said (without actually examining the rest of the gun) is that the yellow slide stop assembly spring, if present, is the latest revision. The original wire spring was unpainted, and then it was followed by a red one, and then a light blue one, and then the yellow one.

The red one remained in the 9's when the .40's & .45's received the light blue one, and then the yellow one came about during some further testing of the .357's, and then was selectively used for repair purpose in some .40's. Now it appears they're going to standardize on the yellow spring in all the standard models.

The original slide stop assembly with the yellow painted wire spring was being used before the slide stop assembly was itself recently revised to add the angled bend on the right/rear bottom corner. I replaced a slide stop assembly with the yellow spring in one of my M&P's with the new revised slide stop assembly with not only the yellow spring, but also with the new beveled corner on the right side lever.

Now, for everyone else who is eager to have a noticeably tactile "reset" ...

All this talk of trying to discover the absolute latest & greatest revisions (plural) in any particular production vintage of M&P's is all fine and dandy, but I've been handling and shooting random models made over the last several years, including some pretty recent ones (and including a M&P VTTC 9) ... as well as some that have had the popular aftermarket parts added to them (by armorers) ... and I've listened to other instructors & armorers express their opinions that they've all started to feel pretty much alike when you stand around on the firing line trying the triggers in both dry & live-fire. Especially in dynamic live-fire drills, when you aren't standing around carefully listening and feeling for "tactile trigger reset".

The whole "sear reset issue" may be popular on the internet, and to slow-fire target/competition shooters ... and the market demand for such a feature has prompted S&W to try and meet the perceived desire for this feature ... but shooting to trigger recovery in dynamic, past-paced & demanding training & qual drills seems to be something you hear discussed more often by LE firearms instructors, compared to trigger reset.

I've seen at least my fair share of folks try to keep their fingers on the triggers of their pistols after firing an intentional shot (or shots), trying to hold them at the "reset point", and then experience their guns unexpectedly firing. Sometimes it's seemed it was them unconsciously rocking the triggers during recoil ... or being startled (which having the weapon unexpectedly discharge can really do, yet further lending itself to another "startle response") ... or experiencing a muscle tremor (yip, etc).

Losing balance momentarily (balance destabilization was the popular term for a while), or hand/finger confusion (mixing up tasks being done by one hand with the other) may also be factors. I've known a couple of highly trained and experienced LE folks end up putting holes in things they didn't intended to shoot when their "trigger fingers" mirrored what their other index fingers were being told to do, performing other tasks in high stress situations.

It's just that if the gun fires without the shooter having made a conscious decision to fire that specific round, the round is still going to land somewhere, and the shooter is still going to be responsible for it ... and being in the position of saying that their finger had been deliberately on the trigger, trying to hold the trigger at the "reset point" when the weapon discharged, isn't something anyone probably wants to try to explain. Especially in a legal proceeding.

Hey, just some thoughts. Sorry for going off-topic, but I sometimes feel this whole "trigger reset" thing is often blown out of proportion and taken out of context by some folks.

I have Sigs with Short Reset Triggers and I have Glocks. I shoot competition and not slow fire and my M&P 40c trigger has zero feel to me. I have the opposite problem, not knowing the limit I am often surprised by my shot or lack of shot. I just really want to know if I can send it in to get the parts upgraded. While it may not matter to you, it matters to me and others.

 

[Fastbolt]

I have Sigs with Short Reset Triggers and I have Glocks. I shoot competition and not slow fire and my M&P 40c trigger has zero feel to me. I have the opposite problem, not knowing the limit I am often surprised by my shot or lack of shot. I just really want to know if I can send it in to get the parts upgraded. While it may not matter to you, it matters to me and others.

I'm told S&W doesn't have enough of a surplus of the new parts for anything more than trying to keep up with new gun production and some repair use (as older parts are exhausted).

They apparently don't even have the surplus parts to think about sending out "kits" for existing LE agency customers, if they were to want to start installing revised parts in their older M&P's.

Maybe sometime later on ...

 

[Hillbilly77]

I just really want to know if I can send it in to get the parts upgraded.

Part of me doubts that they will consider this to be a warranty service, because there is functionally nothing wrong with the older style sear, etc.
I think the updates were to address a common customer complaint, but the gun is not unsafe otherwise.
If they did offer a freebie, it would be out of the kindness of their hearts.

However, last year I sent my M&P40 FS in for repair, and they replaced the sear while they had the gun.

Your best bet would be to call them & ask.
1 (800) 331-0852

 

[Harrison]

I wonder if S&W would retro fit our old style M&P pistols with this upgrade? I love the gun but hate the trigger compared to my PPQ. I just don't want to give APEX what they want for their parts. It is ridiculous the price they charge.

If S&W was interested in customer service they would. Glock retrofit the complete trigger assembly for free on my Gen I G19. Sadly I have already spend about a $100 on my M&P9 produced in Oct-12. It took the complete Apex carry kit to get the trigger to what my Gen III glock had from the factory.

 

[Harrison]

BTW, if you enter a Glock match, a factory armorer will check out your pistol and replace and/or retrofit any worn or obsolete parts. All for free.

 

[natedg200202]

This is very exciting to me as the 9C is on the very short list for my first handgun purchase. Great timing.

Now I just have to save my pennies and find one for sale.

Any ideas on how one would identify the updated version? Dry fire and hopefully detect a click at reset?

 

[Hillbilly77]

Any ideas on how one would identify the updated version? Dry fire and hopefully detect a click at reset?

Yes, this.
Dry fire the gun and keep your finger on the trigger with the trigger pulled back.
With your finger still on the trigger, pull the slide back about 1/2" to reset the striker. Let the slide go forward again.
Now, release the trigger slowly, and you should feel and/or hear the reset. It may take a couple tries to notice it.
If there is a noticeable and audible >click<, it likely has the updated parts. If it is vague and not noticeable, it is probably the older style.

 

[2tango2]

Ok my FS 9 which has a rest fire date of Oct 26 behaves like this.....dry fire, hold trigger back, pull slide back 1/2 inch and then let trigger out.....after maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of release I hear a click.... It isn't a sharp click , sort of subtle but the trigger is reset and I can fire again

Can I assume this October 12 build has the updated parts? Reason I ask is the trigger still feels diff compared to my Shield

Getting snowed in here in NH so mind has time to think up these type of questions lol

 

[Hillbilly77]

Ok my FS 9 which has a rest fire date of Oct 26 behaves like this.....dry fire, hold trigger back, pull slide back 1/2 inch and then let trigger out.....after maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of release I hear a click.... It isn't a sharp click , sort of subtle but the trigger is reset and I can fire again

Can I assume this October 12 build has the updated parts? Reason I ask is the trigger still feels diff compared to my Shield

Getting snowed in here in NH so mind has time to think up these type of questions lol

If you hear it, it's most likely the newer style.
The old style was almost unnoticeable, and you couldn't really hear it.

 

[robkarrob]

My Shield has a very positive tactile feel, at reset. The "click" sound is very noticeable in a quiet room, but I cannot hear it with muffs or earplugs on. What everyone likes is the "feel" of the reset. My trigger feels like it jumps forward about 1/32 inch, at reset. This jump gives me immediate sensation, to my trigger finger, that I can stop releasing and pull the trigger to fire again. It is not a vague feeling, but a definite jump, which anyone would be able to feel. It is a great improvement to the original M&P's vague reset.

Bob