M&P's WITH NEW TRIGGER PULL

[LennyP]

Sear Pictures

Here is a pic of the new machined S&W sear on the left and the old cast sear on the right. Remove the slide and look for the machined sear when buying a new M&P.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143392&stc=1&d=1393015098

 

[Kroggo]

Hi all!
Im fairly new to shooting and added to that I live in Sweden, US guns except revolvers is very rare over here. In IPSC over here Glock, Tangfoglio and CZ is the dominant brands.
The point is that i tried a M&P9 Pro when i was in the US for vacation and kinda fell in love.
As soon as i got the permit to buy one i did, but the dealer messed up and to make long story short, I ended up with a M&P9 Pro CORE 5" barrel.
My question is
It is testfired 20 nov 2014, does it have the new parts installed?
The barrel has the dimple which should indicate the 1/10 twist, but what about the trigger parts?
I think it feels good but I dont have any M&P to compare with...

 

[Bkreutz]

Hi all!
Im fairly new to shooting and added to that I live in Sweden, US guns except revolvers is very rare over here. In IPSC over here Glock, Tangfoglio and CZ is the dominant brands.
The point is that i tried a M&P9 Pro when i was in the US for vacation and kinda fell in love.
As soon as i got the permit to buy one i did, but the dealer messed up and to make long story short, I ended up with a M&P9 Pro CORE 5" barrel.
My question is
It is testfired 20 nov 2014, does it have the new parts installed?
The barrel has the dimple which should indicate the 1/10 twist, but what about the trigger parts?
I think it feels good but I dont have any M&P to compare with...

With that test fire date it will have the 1:10 twist barrel. (which makes no difference unless you're using heavy bullets like 147gr) I use KKM and it has a 1:18 and it works fine with 124 gr bullets. The dimple does not denote twist rate (another internet fantasy) it indicates which machine did that barrel. Trigger parts you can determine this yourself, look at the previous thread for a picture of the new sear, you can see the front of the sear profile with the slide off. The new trigger bar has an H stamped into it and the slide release has a bump on it. There are pictures of both of these multiple places on this site. I know you have limited access to aftermarket parts but if you are going to shoot competition, see if you can get an Apes Forward Set Sear with a flat faced trigger. That's what I use on my competition guns and the improvement is dramatic. You might try EBay, they don't seem to have the same import/export problems that everyone else has.

Welcome to the site.

 

[Kroggo]

Thanks, Bkreutz!
I identified the sear as the new model, and the trigger bar has the small H stamped on to it. I couldn't se the "bump" on the slide catch lever though. Check it more thoroughly tonite.
As for installing Apeks parts or kit, I´d say that would be a No No in IPSC production..

 

[hokiefyd]

The severe curve of the FS's trigger still bothers me. I'm waiting for Smith to install the Shield's trigger, which isn't as sharply raked. I don't mind the feel of the internals of the FS's trigger (pull, reset, etc), but the pronounced C-shape of the trigger itself irritates my trigger finger when firing. My Shield doesn't have that problem.

 

[Ofc.JL]

Kroggo, you have an "Updated" trigger system if you pistol has the "H" on the trigger bar. Adding parts from APEX, while will work, doesn't really help all that much. The new "H" system is S&W's response to the critism of the early M&P's lack of positive reset and long sear release triggers.
Save your money for ammo and go and shoot the pistol. I will bet that within 500 rounds fired, you will be very happy with S&W's current trigger system.
IMHO, anyhow. Be safe and have fun.
Ofc.JL

 

[Kroggo]

I have been to the range and put a few hundred rounds through the gun and I really wonder if I have got some kind of magic gun.
I guess an updated triggerkit etc would improve the gun but since I bought a production gun I'm surprised of the performance.
Crisp break, smooth recoil, excellent accuracy. The reset isn't a loud click or snappy tactile but when I shoot it I just let the trigger go a bit and then press it again, 400 rounds so far and not one "fail to fire" due to not letting the gun reset properly.

My M&P made me happy!!

 

[Santafe66]

I'll attempt an answer here. In the self defense shooting classes
I've taken, they stress "shooting to the reset" for faster follow
up shots. This means after a shot only allowing the trigger to
return just enough for the trigger to reset. On some M&Ps, the
reset is pretty vague. Adding a RAM(reset assist mechanism)
helped my 40c. I've got a Shield 40 on order & I'm sure looking
forward to checking out the trigger! Hope this helps.

I have a .45 Mid-Frame (FS but 4" bbl) and after installing the Apex Flat forward set trigger and getting a 4# pull, I wanted the more tactile reset as the reset was very quiet and with little vibration. Smith was consulted and they said they won't sell me one of the new Slide Releases yet until all the old inventory is sold and they have enough excess to sell. Then I got another email from Smith saying the new Slide Release won't fit my pistol????? If you look at what Modern Service Weapons has posted elsewhere in the forum, there is very little difference between the old and new Slide Release. Just a little metal changes. I think Smith is B.S.ing me because they know I don't want to send in my pistol to them and have all my Apex parts removed. They're right, I don't. I'll wait until the new part becomes available on Brownell's, purchase it and discover for myself. Smith's policy of removing all non-Smith parts doesn't work for me. Granted, I'd get the Apex parts back in a baggie, but I'd have to go through the install process again.

 

[kthom]

My question is: Who among us, in the very high stress situation of almost any scenario of personal protection where rounds are fired, will be able to even think about tactile trigger reset? Not me, I don't think, and I've been around a long time. There is not one thing wrong with having a good trigger with good and tactile reset indications. In the same way, it's very good to have a handgun that is capable of extreme accuracy as opposed to just "average" accuracy. But how many of us, in the same situation, are capable of keeping our ability honed on the range and under training where incoming rounds are not present, are capable of using that very accurate gun to it's full potential?

I'm not trying to poke anyone here in the eye. I love improvements to my favorite firearms as much as anyone. But the fact is, there are relatively very, very few among us who have been under the kind of stress that is involved in a serious personal protection situation often enough to have full control of their senses and heart rate and blood pressure, etc, etc, to be able to really concentrate on tactile reset of their triggers when they return fire. If we are lucky, we might be able to release our trigger finger fully forward to the inside of the trigger guard and immediately begin to return to apply pressure again on the trigger. And under the stress present, we are probably gonna hit that trigger pretty hard and fast. Yes, there is stress in serious competition, but nobody is shooting back at us!! There IS a difference!

I'm going to tell you that I am perfectly satisfied with the stock trigger on my M&P and Shield models for my personal protection needs. I especially like them after they have set off primers about a thousand times and have become smoothed and honed by that much use. They will do the job of personal protection nicely in my opinion. I've owned some bad triggers, which I have had remedied. There are lemons among all brands and operating platforms. But across the board, the manufacturers are doing a pretty fair job of providing us with very usable and reliable personal protection firearms. I sure don't expect many or any of you to agree with me, but I think it's worth thinking about. We mostly speculate about the usefulness of many of the features found on our favorite guns when we find ourselves in the unique and very high stress situation where someone is launching rounds toward us or is about to do so! Thanks for listening and thinking about this. It's just my considered opinion.

 

[JL Murray]

My brother has a FS M&P 9 built in Feb 2014, Mine FS M&P 9 was built in Mar 2016 and the trigger feels better on mine than his and I have been wondering why...

Here is a picture of my trigger bar if that helps tell why mine is any different than his...

.

 

[CB3]

Training

My question is: Who among us, in the very high stress situation of almost any scenario of personal protection where rounds are fired, will be able to even think about tactile trigger reset?

I would like to politely disagree with your premise that stress will render good trigger manipulation (to reset only) unlikely or improbable.

This may be true for untrained shooters. However, when training has been accomplished with competent repetition over time, one's default trigger manipulation can be to fire from the reset. One does not need to think about it, process a trigger manipulation, or do anything other than allow the default, trained trigger pull to be accomplished unconsciously.

The best explanation of this is the four stages of competence.

Four stages of competence - Wikipedia

"The Four Stages of Learning provides a model for learning. It suggests that individuals are initially unaware of how little they know, or unconscious of their incompetence. As they recognize their incompetence, they consciously acquire a skill, then consciously use it. Eventually, the skill can be utilized without it being consciously thought through: the individual is said to have then acquired unconscious competence."

The final stage is unconscious competence. If one practices with all his semi-auto firearms to return the trigger only to the reset point for repeat shots, over time and thousands of rounds, this becomes the default trigger pull, even under stress. A tactile reset helps with this and is thus desirable.

While the stress of competition may not be the same as having bullets coming back at you, many competitive shooters under stress do fire only from reset. Many defense shooting trainers and competent military people have experienced real gunfights and would affirm they shoot from reset only.

Shooting from reset is a worthwhile and obtainable goal of training, and triggers with a tactile reset are desirable and useful.

 

[kthom]

I understand, Sir, and do not take exception to what you have said. I do, however, believe that the percentage of competition shooters among us who have trained to the level you describe are a fairly small percentage of those of us who strap on a gun and carry it for personal protection. A great many of us just don't burn much practice ammo, and sadly, many don't fire much at all. Of course, there is also a pretty large number who only carry "when they think they might need it". But if anyone reads this and thinks it's a good thing to have the feature we are describing, it's certainly not going to hurt anything at all. I just feel that a great many will never actually be able to realize and take advantage of it's benefit.

Thankfully, not a lot of us are ever put in that situation of extreme stress. But we ought to at least recognize and think about what we hope to do if we are ever subjected to it. I can say from experience that if that situation suddenly comes upon us, we will default to whatever level of subconscious action that our training (or lack of it) will provide! Some one famously said (sorry I can't remember now who) that those who prevail in a gunfight are those who are absolutely willing to pull the trigger if it becomes necessary. That's another side of the coin, but if we are not as certain as we can possibly be that we are willing without hesitation, the outcome is likely not to be in our favor, regardless of our equipment! It is, after all, a serious decision to own and carry any firearm! Peace ...

 

[jim46ok]

CB3 and kthom both bring up some thought provoking points. Two things from their conversation I am walking away with is the value of practice and having the right attitude while practicing for an actual defense situation. Thanks, gents.....

 

[Vsmith]

I have a older, M&P 40 with the old trigger and I went and bought a M&P 9 last week. The trigger in the M&P 9 has a much better tactile and audible reset. There's no false reset like the m&p 40 can do. I have been fooled by it several times thinking it was the reset and it wasn't. It does have a click but then you need to allow it to go a little further then it actually resets. I have never carried the m&p 40 for that exact reason. I try to shoot with the reset but I do not want a ghost reset to cost me a follow up shot. I understand it is easily fixed with an apex kit I just carry my 9c more often then not and it has the newer trigger. The 9c I got last june when I actually turned 21 and have carried it every day since.