M1899 Army 1 of 1000

[bettis1]

A couple of years ago I was fortunate enough to find a copy of the grand daddy of the .38 Military & Police Hand Ejectors; a very nice 1st Model .38 M&P. The gun is in excellent condition, perhaps 95%+/-.

To sweeten the pot, it is also one of the 1000 guns that were shipped to the Army in 1901. The grips are spectacular with the "KSM" and "J.T.T.1901" logos in perfect condition. The barrel is marked "S&W .38 MIL." (the US Service Cartridge, aka .38 Long Colt).

The gun was shipped March 29, 1901 to the U.S. Army, National Armory, Springfield, MA. Next month that gun will be 114 years old.

Last week, while nosing around in a large antique arms dealers shelves I found a box of ammunition for that gun. The box is marked:

20 CALIBER .38 REVOLVER BALL CARTRIDGES
For COLT'S DOUBLE ACTION REVOLVER
Smokeless Powder
Manufactured at Frankford Arsenal

The box was open and there are three rounds missing, however, the packaging is still excellent and will display beautifully with the revolver.

The cartridges are head stamped 1913. I loaded a cylinder of them and they dropped into the chambers like long lost friends.

I have to say that I experienced a "Chris Matthews thrill up my leg" when I loaded that 114 year old soldier. Sometimes, finding the relatively small things bring as much joy as the big ones!

Bob

 

[S&W ucla]

Very nice Bob!! I have tried a time or two to pick one of those up but missed out. One of the great guns in S&W collecting in my book. Now you need a Navy to go with it! Was this what you were issued in the Army? (sorry couldn't resist, I know Ed still has the #2 they issued him in the uncivil war)

 

[loknload]

Nice,,,,very nice! That's pretty cool coming up with the box of ammo!

 

[cgt4570]

Nice! Here's a pic of mine. It's in about the same condition as yours thanks to a factory refinish in the '20s. Unfortunately the refinish was in nickel. It's wearing a set of new old stock stocks but I have a set of correct inspected stocks for it. I also lucked into one of the 1899 Navy versions. It's all original with great mechanics but plenty of 'issued' wear to the finish. I'm in the middle of a move right now so I don't have it to take pics of.

 

[cgt4570]

Will yours chamber a .38 Special or is it short chambered for the '.38 Military Cartridge' aka .38 Long Colt? I have not shot mine but a Spl will chamber easily. Maybe it was reamed at the factory during the refinish?

 

[DWalt]

While Frankford Arsenal did manufacture the .38 LC, most of the ammunition from 1909 onward was obtained under contract from the civilian loaders - REM-UMC, U. S. Cartridge Co., Winchester, and Peters. A nice box of period FA ammunition (even if not full) is a great find. I have never personally seen one, just pictures. The last known production at Frankford Arsenal was in 1915 (F A 3 15 headstamp).

 

[bettis1]

Chris,

A .38 Spl. will not chamber in my Army. It is my understanding that both the Army and the Navy M1899's were chambered for the .38 Military (aka .38 Long Colt). The civilian versions of the 1st Model M&P was chambered for the .38 Special.

Bob

 

[gjamison]

Great gun and ammo!

This is one of my grail gun's. Someday soon I hope...

 

[DWalt]

".38 Military (aka .38 Long Colt)" The Army nomenclature was "Caliber .38 Ball, U. S. Army" Sometimes the boxes are labeled "Caliber .38 Revolver Ball"

 

[bettis1]

Dwalt,

Thanks for that ammo info. I have never seen a Frankford Arsenal box of the .38 Long Colt before either. It is a typical military packaging, much like the relatively common M1911 Ball .45 ACP. As I mentioned the cases are head stamped with a 13.

I kinda held my breath when I asked the clerk "how much?". He scratched his head, looked at it and said "There are three missing! How about $20?" I swallowed hard, but paid it anyway.

Bob

 

[DWalt]

I wouldn't be surprised you could easily get $100 for the partial box from a cartridge collector, provided it's not too ratty. During that time, the standard loading was 3.0 grains of Bullseye smokeless powder, a 148 grain lead bullet, and an "Official" MV of 755 ft/sec. Believe it or not, there was still some stateside and in-theater rear area use of the Colt .38 revolvers during WWI - there was a handgun shortage at that time, so everything was pressed into service.

 

[Göring's S&W]

Bob

Very nice revolver and box of ammo and welcome to the club I got mine a few years back. It came with a nice vintage left hand holster. The holster is really well preserved. They are really neat pieces of history. The one I bought was actually my first 1899. I bought the letter for it last year, not that I needed to, but just for the hell of it I guess.

The gun all matches, works well, etc. There is some flaking on the right side plate. The "J.T.T." and "K.S.M." inspector markings on the gun refer to John T. Thompson and Kelly S. Morse. As Bob said, these are 38 US Service aka 38 long colt and do NOT chamber 38 special...

 

[Springfan]

May I ask, is it a left hand holster, or is it to be worn on the right side, butt forward, as per military protocol of the time?

 

[Muley Gil]

May I ask, is it a left hand holster, or is it to be worn on the right side, butt forward, as per military protocol of the time?

Right hand, butt forward. WW I era 1917 holsters were the same.

 

[Göring's S&W]

May I ask, is it a left hand holster, or is it to be worn on the right side, butt forward, as per military protocol of the time?

Hmmm....I didn't know that was protocol - so I am not sure. Based on your statement, it would be a right hand holster?

 

[bettis1]

Gil is correct. It is a holdover of the old Cavalry days when the revolver was drawn with the left hand in a cross draw. That allowed the right (strong side) hand to draw the saber which hung on the left side. If the revolver needed to be drawn with the right hand they used a reverse grip. Note: that is a quick way to distinguish between a WWl and WWll version of the M1917 holster.

Beautiful gun, Jim. I love the holster. Did it come with the revolver or was it a separate find?

Bob

 

[Göring's S&W]

Thanks for the info on the holster guys. I like it much better now that I know it is a standard holster and not some left hand holster that was moth-balled in a crate somewhere for 50 years (what I originally thought).

Beautiful gun, Jim. I love the holster. Did it come with the revolver or was it a separate find?

Thank you Bob! I bought the 1899 with the holster from a well known online seller. The holster is a nice one.