M1899 Followed Me Home...

[.455_Hunter]

I found this old timer at Gunsport Colorado in Boulder. The serial number is "32XX" with the 6 1/2" barrel and matching number grips. I thought $370 was a fair deal, so it came home with me. Much more fun than putting money into the stock market... It's kinda of neat to think that all of those K-frames produced are descendants of this model. I plan to hit the range as soon as I can- I am sure it will shoot very well with period correct loads. The bore is mirror shiny with just a couple of fine pits, and the mechanical action is perfect. Of course, a letter from Roy is in the near future- who knows what interesting facts could be revealed?

What do you guys think?

 

[.455_Hunter]

I found this old timer at Gunsport Colorado in Boulder. The serial number is "32XX" with the 6 1/2" barrel and matching number grips. I thought $370 was a fair deal, so it came home with me. Much more fun than putting money into the stock market... It's kinda of neat to think that all of those K-frames produced are descendants of this model. I plan to hit the range as soon as I can- I am sure it will shoot very well with period correct loads. The bore is mirror shiny with just a couple of fine pits, and the mechanical action is perfect. Of course, a letter from Roy is in the near future- who knows what interesting facts could be revealed?

What do you guys think?

 

[opoefc]

That's not a Model 1899. It's a .32-20 Hand Ejector, 1st Model, made about 1901. mechanically very similar to the Model 1899, however it's a different gun in a different caliber. Model 1899s are in caliber .38 S&W Special, aka. U.S.Service cartridge.

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

Yup....it's a .32-20 HE allright, but for the price I think you did ok. Now your gonna have to buy "another" 1899 M&P (.38) and then a 1902 M&P (.38) and a c.1902 .32-20 HE. See how this disease sneaks up on ya? Good luck, nice gun, fair price. Good looking grips too!

 

[.455_Hunter]

Oh well...

I thought the M1899 Hand Ejector, First Model, encompassed both .38 and .32/20 production from 1899-1901, but I am not a subject matter expert. When did the first .32/20's roll out of Springfield?

How do you remove the yoke/cylinder assembly on this model?

I have a 1906 production .32/20 to keep it company already!

Thanks!

 

[H Richard]

You would remove the yoke/cylinder assembly the same way you do all HE's, by removing the front side-plate screw and gently pulling the (opened) cylinder forward. Be very careful, as there is a spring loaded pin in the yoke assembly that will fly out as you slide it forward. The cylinder would be removed from the ejector rod by unscrewing it (right hand thread) and will probably be tight. Do not use pliers on it you will damage it.

 

[mikepriwer]

Ed

You forgot to take your meds this morning . That is as much a model of 1899 as you are a
member of the S&WCA.

The Military and Police Model of 1899 was offered in two optional calibers. One model -
two calibers. In .38 special / U S Military , and in 32 Winchester. Each in its own
serial number series, but one model. Not two models.

The yoke/cylinder are removed just like any other M&P ; remove the front side plate screw,
and with the cylinder open, slide it forward and off.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[jjones33]

Originally posted by opoefc:
That's not a Model 1899. It's a .32-20 Hand Ejector, 1st Model, made about 1901. mechanically very similar to the Model 1899, however it's a different gun in a different caliber. Model 1899s are in caliber .38 S&W Special, aka. U.S.Service cartridge.

Hold on. A 38 spl is not the US Service Cartridge. the US Service Cartridge is a 38 Long Colt. The model 1899 was manufactured in both.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Be very careful, as there is a spring loaded pin in the yoke assembly that will fly out as you slide it forward.

I knew there was something different about this model.

Thanks.

 

[mikepriwer]

Ted

A lot of the 1899's and 1902's , in .38 caliber, are roll-marked for both cartridges.
An example is

First line: 38 S & W SPECIAL
Second line: & U.S. SERVICE CTG'S

There was a discussion a few years back, and I think it was on the old S&WCA site,
about what this really meant. I think it was Ed Cornett who explained what this
US Service Ctg actually was, and I don't think it was .38 Long Colt.

Whatever it is, these early guns chamber both - that is what is stamped on their barrels.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[jjones33]

Originally posted by mikepriwer:
Ted

A lot of the 1899's and 1902's , in .38 caliber, are roll-marked for both cartridges.
An example is

First line: 38 S & W SPECIAL
Second line: & U.S. SERVICE CTG'S

There was a discussion a few years back, and I think it was on the old S&WCA site,
about what this really meant. I think it was Ed Cornett who explained what this
US Service Ctg actually was, and I don't think it was .38 Long Colt.

Whatever it is, these early guns chamber both - that is what is stamped on their barrels.

Regards, Mike Priwer

The US Service cartridge used by S&W in their 1899s is the same as used by Colt in their 1901, 1902s, etc. It is an anemic cartridge that did little good. A 38 spl will not even chamber in a 38 mil marked gun but you can chamber a 38 mil in a 38 spl. The first 1899s were chambered in both but for a while the 38 spl had dual designation but they are two different cartridges. by saying in your post 38 spl aka 38 service cartridge it implied they were the same.

38 mil or service cartridge with a 38 spl

rollmark

38 spl 1899 with no cartridge designation but letters as a 38 spl shipped Aug. 1899

 

[mikepriwer]

Ted

That gun in your picture, with the 38 Mil rollmarking, is one of the thousand
guns done for the Army contract. I think they are the only ones with the slot in
the end of the extractor nob. The chambering is different on this contract, than
the ones that are dual-cartridge, as in the example I gave.

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[jjones33]

My point that they were not one in the same cartridge. Perhaps I got confused when you stated 38 special also known as 38 service cartridge. They are two different cartridges and the later is also known as the 38 long colt.

 

[opoefc]

Mike, You and I are going to agree to disagree on this one! That gun is not a Model 1899, it's a .32-20 Hand Ejector, First Model. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! Granted the two guns are identical mechanically, in most respects, however if the factory decided to assign a separate set of serial numbers for each model, then in my humble opinion, that means they are separate models. The fact that the factory may have said to customers that they could order the Model 1899 in a different caliber (.32-20) didn't mean they got a Model 1899, they got a .32-20 Hand Ejector, 1st Model.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Do anybody shoot their early S&W's like this on a regular basis?

The gun has a rebounding hammer, but you can push it back forward (against spring tension) enough that the hammer nose just protrudes from the frame. I am not sure that it would be enough to fire a primer, but it would be concerning to carry it with all chambers loaded. My 1906 production .32/20 does not do this.

Any thoughts on this matter?

Just as a point of reference, David Chicoine lists the following in his Hand Ejector serial/model number look-up table:

.32/20 Hand Ejector First Model (1899), manufactured 1899-1902, serial numbers 1-5,331.

.38 Hand Ejector First Model (1899), manufactured 1899-1902, serial numbers 1-20,975.

 

[Dr.-d]

.455-hunter- I have the Model of 1902 in 32/20 and I shoot it once in awhile with light handloads and I take it in the woods occasionaly in a full flap holster to protect it on walks. I haven't figured how to post pics yet but mine looks like yours younger brother. mine is in the 7*** ser # range.

 

[dewidmt]

I had a Model 1905 4th change in 32.20. I shot it with a mild handload of 2.5 gr of Bullseye under a 115gr cast LRN.

 

[mikepriwer]

Ed

Thanks for clarifying all of this. I guess all my catalogs are wrong - I'll just
pitch them all out. If you would be so kind, would you sell me one of your catalogs
that lists the 32-20 model ? Price is not an object - I want to own - even a copy -
of the docment that spells all this out.

As I'm tossing out all this wrong literature, this is what my - obviously wrong -
1900 catalog says.

.38 Military Model 1899
The ammunition adapted to this arm is the .38 Smith & Wesson Special ,
United States Service Cartridge (listed as 38 Long Colt ) and the .32
Winchester Repeating Rifle Cartidge.

I've scoured every page, with a magnifying glass, but just can not find anything
remotely resembling a 32-20 Model of anything.

Gosh - what a wasted 20 years of collecting catalogs. Imagine - all of them wrong !

Wonder what the odds are, of that ?

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[opoefc]

Mike, "Touche!" I know your belief that the early catalogs are the Bible when it comes to describing S&Ws, and that is sometimes the case, however catalogs are marketing tools prepared by the sales dep't to get peple to buy S&Ws. So why confuse all those potential buyers by having two models? Why not just say that a customer can order any caliber he wants in any model we make (within reason) and if we get an order for a .32-20 at S&W (circa 1900) we will fill it with a Model 1899 frame and a .32-20 cylinder and barrel and call it a .32-20 Hand Ejector, 1st model, and give it a separate serial number range for it alone, and that way we can track it's popularity with the public for marketing purposes,etc. 100 yrs ago Catalogs were tools to sell guns, just like today. Not to keep track of models or engineering variations, that's why when later on, well written & researched books on S&WS ( Neal & Jinks, Supica & Nahas, etc.) properly realized that the old catalogs were not the Bible of S&Ws when it came to proper classification of differences in guns produced. For example, S&W Model Ones, first issue, have 6 different variations recognized by collectors, Model One, 2nd & 3rd issues have two variations each, however no S&W flyer advertising the Model One ever mentioned that. They didn't have to, they were only a method of telling the public that S&W had a .22RF Model One revolver for sale. Also, don't forget the 100s of S&W that collectors have in their collections that are guns that were never cataloged, but 100% genuine, usually rare, S&Ws, like the Model 45s or the Pre-Triple Locks in .45S&W Special caliber. Please don't throw away all those great turn of the century catalogs, they are what they are - Great marketing tools and masterpieces of printing - just not the last word in what S&W would build for you! Ed.

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

Originally posted by oldflatfoot:
Yup....it's a .32-20 HE allright, but for the price I think you did ok. Now your gonna have to buy "another" 1899 M&P (.38) and then a 1902 M&P (.38) and a c.1902 .32-20 HE. See how this disease sneaks up on ya? Good luck, nice gun, fair price. Good looking grips too!

LMAO.....I saw this train wreck coming a mile away!