Magazine Spring Orientation

[jerseyshoreshot]

I know this has been kicked around before, but:

I just purchased 10 new magazines from Smith and Wesson for my 4056 and 1076. Nine of the ten had the base plate attached to the shorter looped end and one had the looped end under the follower.

The magazines that came with both pistols had the small loop located under the follower and the base plate attached to the longer, open end. It seems to fit better that way.

It has always been my understanding that the looped end goes under the follower.

Am I correct?

 

[Fastbolt]

I don't know what's going on back in the parts dept, but I've come across a surprising number of NIB .45 magazines which have had the springs installed upside down and even backwards.

The small closed loop faces the front at the top of the mag. It provides maximum lift to the front of the follower. The butt plate catch fits as intended when installed onto the 'bottom' regular spring coil, positioned at the rear (presuming you received one of the metal butt plate catches which hook onto the spring).

 

[tom 45]

CS45 mag spring backwards

WOW! I'm glad someone asked about the spring...
I just bought a new mag for my CS45 and I thought that they redesigned the spring.
After reading this I realize that it's backwards!!!
The small loop is at the bottom with the base plate retainer attached to it.
I guess the first order of business tonight will be to correct that.

Thank you for pointing that out.

Tom

 

[jerseyshoreshot]

Fastbolt,

Thank you for the reply, that is what I thought.

Looking at the spring assembly out of the tube, the way that the 9 came, the larger end of the spring does not fit snug inside of the follower and the looped end does not sit flat above the butt plate catch, but actually seems to want to flex the plate. I noticed on a number of them that the catch was not engaging the plate opening securely when I took them apart.

I sent an e-mail to S & S CS advising them about it, and received a reply that they were factory installed upside down.

Thank you again,

JSS

 

[Fastbolt]

Fastbolt,

Thank you for the reply, that is what I thought.

Looking at the spring assembly out of the tube, the way that the 9 came, the larger end of the spring does not fit snug inside of the follower and the looped end does not sit flat above the butt plate catch, but actually seems to want to flex the plate. I noticed on a number of them that the catch was not engaging the plate opening securely when I took them apart.

I sent an e-mail to S & S CS advising them about it, and received a reply that they were factory installed upside down.

Thank you again,

JSS

I'm guessing they acknowledged in the email that the springs had been installed upside down unintentionally, and not by design, right?

It's not the first time I've heard chagrin in the voice of one of their folks over the phone (not in parts) when I called and mentioned something which had involved their parts dept.

If you don't mind a moment's trivia ...

If I recall right, I think the first time I came across one of the factory-installed upside down .45 mag springs was when I was examining a 4513TSW being used by one of our folks, and I saw it had the mag spring upside down. Having seen some of our people occasionally assemble their mags incorrectly (upside down and/or backwards springs, reversed followers, etc), I naturally looked askance at the person using the gun. The person was emphatic that they had not installed the spring incorrectly.

Well, as it turned out even when I reversed the spring to the correct orientation I felt the spring was a bit weaker in tension than I was comfortable seeing in a duty weapon, and since I didn't have any replacement springs at hand at that moment, I just went back and grabbed a new mag from the bin.

Imagine my surprise when I checked and saw that the new mag also had the spring in upside down. (Why don't we have a double-take, bug-eyed smiley, anyway?)

Makes you wonder how long the shooter had been using the original mag (without problems) with the upside down spring, doesn't it?

I can also relate that I've seen a couple of 4006's feed, fire and eject just fine when the followers were installed backwards (right side up, but reversed regarding front/rear orientation). The slides didn't lock back, though. Not surprising considering the recessed spot intended to catch the slide stop lever's tab was on the wrong side of the mag body ...

In those instances it seemed pretty apparent that the users probably hadn't reassembled the mags properly when last cleaned, as they didn't know how the followers were supposed to be oriented when asked.

You can't make this stuff up ...

 

[mlk18]

And this is why I avoided answering until Fastbolt did. Good info.

 

[jerseyshoreshot]

Fastbolt,

Yes, the e-mail that I received from Smith & Wesson said that the proper installation of the spring was with the looped end placed under the front of the follower. The springs were incorrectly installed at the factory.

Thank you for sharing the stories with me. They were great, especially the one about the backwards follower. It’s amazing the circumstances under which some guns will function. The President of my Pistol Range says his 4506 will hand cycle empty casings. I’ve never tried it though.

 

[40cal]

Dang, now it is driving me crazy! I just had to break down my 4003 mags while I watch 'Justified' on TV. Turns out four out of six were backwards. I have cleaned them individualy over the years, and always put them back the way I found them, never noticed the difference. All had been 100% reliable with thewrong orientation. So now Im fixing them, and a couple with "weak" springs are now good as new with the spring correct. You can always learn something with all the knowledge on this forum. Thanks guys!

 

[goldenlight]

Oh man......Now I have to take ALL my 5906 and 6906 magazines, and see if any of them are wrong.

I can't ever remember taking apart and cleaning more than one magazine at a time, and I'm just stupid enough to put it back together the way I found it, even if it looked a little strange to me....

 

[OKFC05]

Another reason to disassemble, clean and properly assemble all new magazines.

Incorrect factory assembly is common with most brands.

 

[Racer X]

I just checked my 4 6906 mags, and my 3 5906 mags, all 7 had the springs upside down.

 

[Fastbolt]

The subject of mag spring orientation needs to be approached with some care, obviously.

For example, the 3913/CS9/908/4040PD mag springs don't have a specific top or bottom coil or orientation. They're the same at each end and can go in the mag body either way. They aren't 'directional' springs.

Some springs, like the 3rd gen .45 mag springs and the 4013TSW springs (just because they come to the top of my head) have a top & bottom orientation where it's easy to see how each end of the spring is different.

If I look at a mag spring and see that the coils at each end are identical to one another in all respects (shape, size, angle of wire, etc), then it's probably going to end up that they don't have a specific top/bottom orientation.

Then there's the subject of aftermarket mag springs which may, or may not, mimic the way the factory springs are designed. Sometimes an aftermarket sprin maker might design a spring so it can function in 2 different pistol mag designs, making it easier to sell to owners of both since only 1 spring is needed to satisfy both requirements, and yet this may create a top/bottom orientation that may not be present in one or the other of the original factory springs.

Same thing with recoil springs in some guns.

Sometimes it pays to call the company and ask.

 

[demkofour]

The subject of mag spring orientation needs to be approached with some care, obviously.

For example, the 3913/CS9/908/4040PD mag springs don't have a specific top or bottom coil or orientation. They're the same at each end and can go in the mag body either way. They aren't 'directional' springs.

If I look at a mag spring and see that the coils at each end are identical to one another in all respects (shape, size, angle of wire, etc), then it's probably going to end up that they don't have a specific top/bottom orientation.

Sometimes it pays to call the company and ask.

Good call Fastbolt! I took down my five eight round 9mm single stack mags and saw that the springs were in fact ambi. So +1 that this series of magazine springs have no specific orientation...

 

[469Shooter]

I checked my 469 mags and found one had the small looped end attached to the base end. I turned it around to match the other one.
It has never loaded funny or caused any hiccups at the range. I've never had them apart either! Until today.Just lucky I guess.

 

[Fastbolt]

I checked my 469 mags and found one had the small looped end attached to the base end. I turned it around to match the other one.
It has never loaded funny or caused any hiccups at the range. I've never had them apart either! Until today.Just lucky I guess.

In the compact 469/69XX the 'half-size' loop is the bottom end of the spring, located at the rear of the mag. This will place the full length loop at the top, with the high end of the coil facing toward the front of the follower.

The 9mm spring has a regular coil at the top, but the 4013TSW spring has a slight upward bend to the top coil, with the highest end of the angled top coil pointing to the front, providing the most lift to the front of the follower in this fast-cycling gun.

When in doubt, call the factory and confirm orientation.