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Luke Duke

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In the real picture is it really necessary to push any Magnum past what it was designed for ; I think to many people are trying to reinvent the wheel. 158 gr .357 @1200 , .44 240 gr. @ 1400 , 210 41 Mag @ 1200, 45auto 230 @850.
In the real world with the right hand loads / factory loads this is serious medicine! If it works don't fix it!
With the exception of some light target loads
 
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In the real world I don't think it is necessary to push a 44 bullet anywhere near magnum velocity unless hunting game larger than whitetails.
The 44 special will do nicely for most everything else.
Need more velocity or a heavier bullet for that big game?
Go to a bigger cartridge (445 or 444).
 

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In general I tend to load my Magnums a bit on the light side, as in 14.5 grains of H110 with a 158 grain XTP. Out of my 6 inch Dan Wesson this chronographs at 1150 fps and is a pleasure to shoot. Out of my 20 inch 1892 Winchester it's good for 1610 fps and still a pleasure to shoot.

A also have a super light Magnum that I pretty much reserve for my treasured 1973 vintage model 19 snubby. Yeah, a 158 grain XTP at 950-1000 fps out of a 2 1/2 inch barrel isn't really a Magnum but it does
protect the forcing cone and it's perfectly good for protection.
 
Sometimes what people do has noting to do with the real world.

We often do things just because we can

Many cartridge advancements and innovations over the decades have come to be because folks were pushing things beyond what they were designed for

If folks like Elmer Keith has not pushed things beyond what the 44 Special was designed for, the 44 Magnum may have never come to be.

Thankfully Roy Weatherby pushed things beyond what they were designed for and the 300 Weatherby Magnum was born
 
Luke Duke said:
In the real picture is it really necessary to push any Magnum past what it was designed for ; I think to many people are trying to reinvent the wheel. 158 gr .357 @1200 , .44 240 gr. @ 1400 , 210 41 Mag @ 1200, 45auto 230 @850.
In the real world with the right hand loads / factory loads this is serious medicine! If it works don't fix it!
With the exception of some light target loads
Click to expand...

Somewhere in the middle of the published data I find the most accurate load. Accuracy, not velocity, is what I'm looking for. I loaded a 357 with every commercial bullet from Hornady from mild to wild to find the apex of accuracy. My conclusion was there was nothing to be gained by the highest velocities. I was using a scoped bolt rifle.

If you need more velocity find a bigger case or bottleneck cartridge.
 
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There always has been and always will be those guys who like to push the envelope.
Elmer Keith....pushed the 44 special. That became the 44 magnum.
He pushed the 41 Long Colt. That developed into the 41 magnum.
Dick Casull pushed the 45 Colt ...that became the 454 Casull.
And so it goes...always somebody out there that wants more power!
Gary
 
Love all these answers. So let this be a lesion to all. Don't beat those beautiful S&W revolvers up with loads that were not designed by S&W engineers.
 
In the Princess Bride.....

Mule Packer said:
Uh...my question has always been, "Just how much deader than dead can you kill somethin'?"
Click to expand...

Wesley was saved because he was just MOSTLY dead. Had he been ALL dead Miracle Max would have gone through his pockets for loose change.:)

To add a serious note. I push my guns to the max sometimes. But not beyond. The .357 is just right for me. I've shot bigger guns and I'll just stick with what I've got. Unless you are killing something you don't need more than a 2/3 to 3/4 load in a magnum to get a satisfying jolt.
 
I prefer my .357 and .44 in the 1100-1200fps range.

I really like the fact that magnums can be loaded to ridiculous levels, but 6-12 full-tilt magnums is enough for me at one time. My last range session I shot ~500 rds of medium strength loads, then closed out with a few cylinders of hot 44 and 357 magnum. I was ready to leave after that! I think that's the first range session I've had where my hand was sore, but not the skin so much as the muscles and tendons.
 
I'll never understand the preaching attitude in handloading discussions and this hilarious term "NEED" that is so casually thrown about.

Need? Need?! No. Never was there any "need."

Re-think it -- your knee-jerk reaction is mistaken and misdirected.

It was never "need", it was - is - will be "WANT." The ability to do it, the interest to pursue it and the knowledge and experience to form a plan and execute it.

I do things at the bench that I wish to do, and never has it been a NEED. Sending a 158 grain slug from a .357 Magnum at 1,250 fps can be safely accomplished by work from my load bench -- it can NEVER be accomplished by "just go to a .44 Mag", which is unhelpful and unsolicited lousy advice.

Currently I am knee-deep in packing every thing I know in preparation for a move. The last experimental load project I undertook at my bench is yet ANOTHER that somehow manages to annoy a few folks who's opinion I don't seek: build some of the lightest 10mm loads I have ever crafted, but will still run my 1006 with complete reliability.

Because I want to. Having nothing whatsoever to do with need.
 
Although I love the 358429 bullet, most all my jacketed bullets for 357 is 158 gr around 1200, my 41 Magnum only sees 210 loaded the way it was designed; for "magnum" work. I could use heavier bullets that kick more but just don't find the need. **** , Ive never strayed from JM Browning's 45 ACP load 5.5gr Bullseye and a 230 gr bullet , Works great in my stupid Glock 21. Ask any dead bad guy that met that load, and ask them if you need more! I have a few Rugers and have tried "Ruger Only" loads. Yikes, F...That. The original loading is just about All I care to experience and if I cant get the job done with these loads its time to get a new job. My Ruger .41 Mag 4 5/8 , 21.0 gr H110 , 210 gr bullet is a real eye opener. Ive got pretty good with this load; but its hilarious to watch some newbies drop the hammer on one!
 
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fredj338 said:
People always push the envelope. IMO, if you need more than max loads in a given caliber, then get a bigger gun. Example, instead of trying to make a 10mm into a 41mag, just get the 41mag. Same for 30-06, get a 300winmag.
Click to expand...

I share your opinion and not based on theory or what others say, but through personal experience.
 
Getting a bigger . . . . . . . .

Mule Packer said:
Uh...my question has always been, "Just how much deader than dead can you kill somethin'?"
Click to expand...

I have spent 20 years shooting prairie dogs. I have shot prairie dogs with a 22 LR , and the dog was stone dead without a twitch. I have also shot prairie dogs with a 30-06 loaded with Hornady 100 gr bullets (designed for M1 carbine) with an soft lead spire point nose and a minimum powder charge, 2,400 fps. Multiple dogs crawled down their holes after solid hits. I used the same bullet in 30 Herrett in a Thompson-Center Contender -- the dogs were stone dead or missed, not one crawled down a hole.

Dead is dead, but when is the question.
 
If it works don't fix it!

Nothing WRONG with Factory ammo that is made today.

Just that it is not what it used to be and has a "Buffer Zone" add on now,
to protect you from the types of weapons put out by the companies now.

Not all are on a HEAVY N frame and need a little lighter loading.

However a person does have the option to get the MOST out of their loads
that are still safe with added fps and energies if needed.

I go OVER factory specs, when I use my revolver for hunting here in Nevada.
Most shots are at or over 50 yards and with the extra power, I have yet to
have to use a second shot.

Generally, 98% of Magnum shooters can survive on Factory loads.
 
Sevens said:
I'll never understand the preaching attitude in handloading discussions and this hilarious term "NEED" that is so casually thrown about.

Need? Need?! No. Never was there any "need."

Re-think it -- your knee-jerk reaction is mistaken and misdirected.

It was never "need", it was - is - will be "WANT." The ability to do it, the interest to pursue it and the knowledge and experience to form a plan and execute it.

I do things at the bench that I wish to do, and never has it been a NEED. Sending a 158 grain slug from a .357 Magnum at 1,250 fps can be safely accomplished by work from my load bench -- it can NEVER be accomplished by "just go to a .44 Mag", which is unhelpful and unsolicited lousy advice.

Currently I am knee-deep in packing every thing I know in preparation for a move. The last experimental load project I undertook at my bench is yet ANOTHER that somehow manages to annoy a few folks who's opinion I don't seek: build some of the lightest 10mm loads I have ever crafted, but will still run my 1006 with complete reliability.

Because I want to. Having nothing whatsoever to do with need.
Click to expand...

You seem fixated on the word need vs want, semantics in this discussion, talk about knee jerk. The point is going beyond the envelope, +P+ loads, ect. Yes, if you feel the need to overload your 357mag, then get a 41mag or 44mag.
 
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"Fixated" are the folks who endlessly flip over used discussion forum gems such as "just go to a bigger gun"

And more beauties such as:
"If it ain't broke..."
"answer to a question that nobody asked"
"just send it to me and I'll dispose of it for you"

Common knowledge and group think isn't what it's cracked up to be. Pushing the limits of what is SAFELY possible in any given chambering is just one of many options when you are a handloader. And the constant, worn-out and easily telegraphed "just go to a bigger gun!" is a dumb suggestion amongst hobbyist folks who know quite well what they're doing.
 
You seem angry Sevens, it's opinion, everyone has one. Fact though, pushing a given case beyond it's limit gets very little in return. Going to the next case size, yes bigger gun, gets the shooter what they are generally trying for & safely. Maybe you just need a hug buddy.
 
roscoepc said:
I Can't go to a bigger gun... I've got a 500......... :eek::D:D:D:D
Click to expand...

I have seen custom jobs where a Magnum Research BFR was chambered in 50 Alaskan. So yes you can go bigger. If that is not enough for you, or if you are even capable of firing it with a heavy load, then its time to go live at the zoo.
 
freudj338 said:
You seem angry Sevens

Fact though

Maybe you just need a hug buddy.
Click to expand...
Your proclivities may be mainstream in 2018 but I don't share them. Don't need your condescension either.
 
Sevens said:
Your proclivities may be mainstream in 2018 but I don't share them. Don't need your condescension either.
Click to expand...

Sevens, you were the one starting off condescending, why I offered the hug. Too many type something & don't read it. You know, kitchen, heat, that sort of thing. Have a nicer day, big hug.
 
Hey,Hey this a friendly discussion. No need to be persnickety. The point being shooting a Magnum with what it was designed for ( no bullets heavier no bullets lighter) 158/.357 Mag , 210/.41 Mag, 240/.44 Mag. Those ballistic engineers had" perfect" figured out. That's the point I'm trying to make
 
Maybe this isn't true today....

bigggbbruce said:
I load magnum cases to a wee bit above "spl" load data.

'cause I want more than "spl" and not quite "magnum"
Click to expand...

I do the same thing.

...with new improved bullets, But the .38 has been considered a low level defense cartridge. For indoors, I load my .357 to the level of the touted .39/44 Heavy Duty beats any 38 special ammo without getting to far into the magnum range
 
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