Man shoots coonhunters dog...big dispute

[Arkyvarminter]

This happened not far from where I live and I wanted to share. The story:

On Nov. 17, 2012, four individuals were hunting on the White River Wildlife Refuge hunting area when their dogs crossed over and entered private property and treed a coon. The individuals decided to retrieve the dogs, without a firearm, so that they could return to the wildlife refuge. When arriving at the area they were met by a man who appeared to be drunk or crazy. He was armed with a rifle and was very irate. He was claiming to be the land owner demanding identification while screaming and cursing. The individuals explained that they were hunting on the refuge and the dogs crossed over, and then asked if they could retrieve their dogs. The land owner refused their request. He then threatened to kill the dogs at the tree and shoot the hunter in the back if he went to retrieve the dogs. The hunter decided to retrieve his dog and came back with the dog heeled by his side on a leash. The irate land owner demanded that the dog owner step away from the dog so that he could shoot the dog. The hunter refused and the land owner then shot the dog while on the leash at the dog owner's side. Not only did he kill a harmless dog while on a leash, he endangered the hunter by shooting the rifle in that close proximity.

The hunters were sentenced to 10 days in jail and fined $1000 for trespassing.The property owner was sentenced to 10 days in jail and a $500 fine for killing the dog. The property owner was also sentenced to an additional six months in jail and a $2,000 fine for assault.

Just wondered what you all thought of all this. I think the landowner went a little overboard. This was all over the news in Arkansas..........

 

[Will Carry]

That's just crazy! The land owner made some enemies, when he could have made friends. In Lower Alabama, the land owner's house would have caught fire, mysteriously. I ain't kiddin' either. I am not like that but plenty of others are.

 

[Malpasowildlifer]

That's too bad. Sad story for the dog and hunters.

Even though the land owner was way out of line, it is best to contact the land owner first, to get permission to enter private property to retreive dogs or game. In many states it is required or the hunter is trespassing. In some states if the owner says no, the hunter is out of luck.

Know your state laws and if in doubt, call a deputy or state wildlife officer.

 

[Arkyvarminter]

A little overboard?

Well, to be honest, I think the guy is a nut. As hard as it is to believe, some are taking up for the property owner since they were on his land. Some people get irate when you wonder onto their land around here.........

 

[Comrad]

The land owner is lucky the hunter didn't defend himself when the land owner pointed his weapon that close to him to shoot the dog.

 

[rwsmith]

I would have

Ok, the trespassing charges are proper (or at least legal) for the hunters. I sure would have found some way to make it harder for the landowner. He escalated a benign situation into a shooting situation where he just as easily could have killed the dogs owner. The landowner could be as ornery as he wanted to in 'defending' his property, but had no call to start gun play. Some people are just crazy mean.

 

[looseman]

I am all for landowners rights but...

This guy was just just plain stupid.

Dogs don't know property lines and there is no way for these fellas to find this wacko's phone number in the woods, if he had one, to get permission first.

This guy will be found dead at some point...he will have pulled this **** on the wrong person.

 

[Faulkner]

Just because you have the right to do something does not mean it's the right thing to do. The land owner made a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

[keith44spl]

When I was just a young man...I knew good and well there's three things,

That ya don't mess with...A man's dog, his property line or his wife

Purty much in that order.



With that being said....I'd hate too be known of being that low down mean,
with so little regard as to shoot a man's dog over a little trespassing.

I bet a hundred dollars to a mule **** that dog(s) didn't rightly know were he was...

Jest runnin a coon, I'd say.


.

 

[gdnagle]

Just because you have the right to do something does not mean it's the right thing to do. The land owner made a mountain out of a mole hill.

And what gave him the right to shoot the dog it was tethered not endangering him or his livestock, the hunters were leaving when told to leave his property with their property. Most states if you are legally hunting you have the right to pursue your quarry if shot,they were not hunting on his land they went to retrieve their property, they did not shoot the coon and left their weapons behind. Wonder if the land is posted some states require this to keep people off. I guess if a drone went down on his property he would have the right to keep officials away. I wasn't there and there are three sides to every story mine, yours, and the truth.... Sounds to me like more to the story then meets the eye or why would so many be fined and jailed.

 

[DeathGrip]

Never trust a man that don't like dogs.

My Dad and his friends had a lease in N. Ga. when I was a kid. The farmer across the street had two dogs that everyone knew would run deer to the ground. I even saw them one day with blood all over them.

They came up missing and Dad hinted that he knew something.

Sometimes people get a little tired of others infringements.

That said, I don't know why or when but this guy cracked. That or he's just plain mean and stupid. Uncalled for.

 

[chud333]

Like ole Dave has said in previous post.
Around here you just don't mess with a guys dog.
I don't coon hunt but know some guys who do and
you would be better off walking up to them and kickin'
them square in the groin than to mess with their huntin'
dogs. Good way to open up a whole can of "bad news"
if you know what i mean. Some of these dudes who hunt
with dogs spend more time in the woods with them than
they do at home with their families.
Now, sounds like the hunters did everything right. Left their
guns and went after their dog. They should have been
afforded that right. Don't be surprised if said (landowner)
has problems in the neighborhood now....
Really a bad deal all the way around.

Chuck

 

[fat tom]

I can see the landowner'sd point of view to an extent,but what he did was downright stupid. A GOOD coon dog will cost several thousand dollars. If I were the owner,I'd sue..........and win.
f.t.

 

[Onomea]

Did the hunters do more than simply trespass? $1000 and ten days in jail seems mighty stiff for just trespassing....

And I agree that the landowner, shooting the leashed dog, is a lowdown, despicable jerk, both for his callous disregard for the safety of the dog's owner, and for his cruelty to an innocent animal.

 

[pownal55]

That guy came close to being a murderer, of more than a dog. As much as I hate gun control the authorities should seriously consider disarming this crackpot before somebody dies.

 

[k22fan]

Sixteen posts and no one wrote it might be past time for the land owner to cork his bottle for good. Funny how so many people are more rational and polite after they sober up.

On account of that I take exception the suggestions above that it would be just fine if an arsonist burnt his house or someone shot him dead.

It doesn't justify his behavior but I bet the land owner feeds his coons and has been frustrated trying to protect them from hunters for a long time.

 

[Wingmaster]

Depending on how long the leash was, I would think that the guy with the dog could be justified in using deadly force to defend himself after being shot at.
Where I come from it isn't a good idea to shoot a man's dog.

Wingmaster

 

[Faulkner]

And what gave him the right to shoot the dog it was tethered not endangering him or his livestock, the hunters were leaving when told to leave his property with their property. Most states if you are legally hunting you have the right to pursue your quarry if shot,they were not hunting on his land they went to retrieve their property, they did not shoot the coon and left their weapons behind. Wonder if the land is posted some states require this to keep people off. I guess if a drone went down on his property he would have the right to keep officials away. I wasn't there and there are three sides to every story mine, yours, and the truth.... Sounds to me like more to the story then meets the eye or why would so many be fined and jailed.

Now, I don't condone the property owner shooting the coon dog, but just to play devil's advocate, the ignorant hillbilly was likely drinking 'shine on his own front porch that is obviously way out in the sticks. Sure, he's probably drunk but he was not bothering nobody else when the boys with the high dollar coon dogs and fancy lights show up in the middle of the night, uninvited. Undoubtedly words were exchanged on both sides.

I'm betting the drunk hillbilly told 'em to get that bellowing, stinking dog off'n his property or he'd shoot it. The slick dog owner probably replied, "if you shoot my dog I'll come cut your gizzard out."

Now, the hillbilly has done been threatened on his own property by uninvited strangers . . . what else could he do now but shoot the dog? You can't just let stuff like that go unreplied to, 'specially if his woman was in the house list'n. If he didn't do somethin' in reply she'd think he was a no good cow'rd for letting strangers come threaten him on his own property like that.

See, it was the dog owners fault.

 

[leswad]

I would hate to see what I would do to someone for intentionally killing my dog. May god have rest on my soul.

 

[Mule Packer]

Being a hound owner myself, I'm well acquainted with their behavior. Once these dogs get on a scent, you might as well forget trying to restrain them or call them back. Like one ol' hound owner told me, "When the nose turns on, the ears turn off." He's pretty much right.

I'm gonna have to agree with Dave. When a hound is on a hot scent, it sure as heck ain't going to give a darn about some property line. Sad thing is, there isn't one thing you can do about it.

I know...I know. It's a mighty thin pancake that doesn't have two sides, but, in my opinion, it takes a pretty low man to shoot another fellow's dog just because it inadvertently crossed a property line.

 

[Berserker]

Some people take property rigths very seriously, as seriously as the 2nd amendment. That being said the guy is nuts.

But people trespassing does not help hunting, ATVing, or snowmobiling.

 

[Berserker]

I'm gonna have to agree with Dave. When a hound is on a hot scent, it sure as heck ain't going to give a darn about some property line. Sad thing is, there isn't one thing you can do about it.

I call BS on this. Just cause you can't stop it, doesn't make it right. Just as the guy who shot the dog.

I just was talking about bear hunters doing this.

If you can't control our dogs, then you need to stay far away from private property, or don't go.

Think about if this guy bow hunted on his property, and you just ran your dogs across it.

If you can't control your dogs, then don't hunt on public land or near private land without permission.

This bothers me because I am a dog lover. Not because I think the guy over reacted.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I don't know diddly-squat about the laws and customs of Arkansas, and they DO matter, but it seems to me that the hunters showed good faith when they left their guns behind. Too bad the drunk didn't perceive that. The drunk is a danger, and if the state can't teach him a lesson, he runs the risk of having it taught otherwise.

 

[redlevel]

The bottom line here is that if you can't control your dogs, you need to keep them in the pen.

The fact that dogs can't read No Trespassing signs is no excuse, although it is a favorite excuse of trespassers. This is, and has been, a huge problem in parts of Georgia with hog hunters. I guess I have heard and read the "My dog can't read them signs" mantra a thousand times.

The dog in my avatar is a Llewellyn Setter. He wears an e-collar. He is never out of my sight, and he is trained to stop and "here" when I beep him. I quit owning big-running pointers because I can't keep up with them, and because I don't have legal access to thousands of acres to quail hunt on like I used to.

I am not condoning the landowner's actions here, but I bet this wasn't the first time this has happened. I bet it has happened to him many times over the years, and he finally got enough of it.

I hate to paint with a broad brush, but coon hunters and hog-doggers tend to be trespassers. They seem to take the attitude that they are entitled.

I put property rights on at least an equal basis with 2nd Amendment rights. "What part of 'shall not be infringed' do you not understand?"

Check this thread and you will see where I'm coming from.
Excuses for Trespassing - Georgia Outdoor News Forum

 

[Mule Packer]

I call BS on this. Just cause you can't stop it, doesn't make it right.

If you can't control our dogs, then you need to stay far away from private property, or don't go.

Think about if this guy bow hunted on his property, and you just ran your dogs across it.

If you can't control your dogs, then don't hunt on public land or near private land without permission.

I didn't say it made it right.

I can certainly see your point, and, no offense meant, but it's obvious you've never been around or hunted with hounds. They're a heckuva lot different than a Llewellyn Setter or any other bird dog for that matter...and I've owned bird dogs.

I didn't say you can't control hounds totally. You certainly can. A well-trained hound is trained not to run deer or anything else you don't want it to run...and that takes plenty of control.

The problem is not in the training, as any person who is knowledgeable about hunting with hounds will tell you. The "problem," if it can even be called that, is in the inherent makeup of the hound breeds. They are genetically programmed to hunt. They live for that. You train them to hunt the particular animal(s) you want hunted. Anything else, they'll steer clear of. That's your control.

Some people say hounds are hard-headed. Once they get a scent, in this particular case, raccoon, they're hell-bent for leather to track it down. They will literally go for days on a scent until they either tree the animal, or they can't go any farther, or their paws give out. Once they tree the animal or "bring it to bay," the standard practice is for the handler to hook them up to the leash and drag them away. You can't call them off a tree.

That is why good hound dogs are worth thousands of dollars, simply because you can't "train" that kind of instinct.

I certainly don't condone violating the rights of a property owner. I'm just saying that due to the nature of the breed, these dogs will go where their noses take them.

 

[redlevel]

I didn't say you can't control them totally. You certainly can.

If you can't train them to stay off my property, then you certainly can't train them totally.

 

[Fishslayer]

I think maybe the landowner should mind his six. Not sure I'd be able to let that one go.

Shooting a loose dog that's harrasing livestock is one thing... shooting a dog that's leashed to it's owner...

Yes, there was a problem. The problem was being corrected. I have a feeling it would be a long time before he would be missed...

 

[keith44spl]

All I can speak for is myself...I never had a problem with anyone
wanting to hunt or retrieve a dog that 'treed' around here.

Hunters seem to keep all those sneaky & pesky pot grower at 'bay'.


.

There used to be a grumpy ol feller that wouldn't let folks hunt or
even cross his little piece of land. Just plum un-neighborly

Best I recall, when he passed not may attended his service neither


.

 

[looseman]

So some of you guys are defending the idea of a landowner shooting a fellas dog for tresspassing on their property. Sure you all put the obligitory " Well I wouldn't have" in there, but your still defending it.

And you wonder how we got to the place we are at now?

 

[redlevel]

Pardon me if I don't seem neighborly.

I have had cows shot, gates left open, irrigation pipe crushed by vehicles, roads destroyed and gullies started by ATVs, fences cut, gates stolen, and crops destroyed, all by trespassers. Most of these were "sportsmen" of some kind, including varmint hunters, deer hunters, trappers, hog-doggers, and just plain poachers.

We have a yearly influx of these "sportsmen" from ATL and Florida who apparently think a lease on a 500 acre plot is equivalent to a deed to the whole county, fences, signs, and property lines be damned. That's in addition to our home-grown white-trash poachers and jack-lighters.

It is a sore subject.