Man shoots coonhunters dog...big dispute

Poodle Soup said:
Sorry to those who think the property owner was in the right. I would have been armed and you would have been shot as soon as the threat came out of your mouth and the gun started to raise in my OR my dogs direction
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so... Here I am, on my property, minding my business, and suddenly I'm confronted by a group of large slobbering beasts. Oh and they're armed, and have dogs. And think they're dogs are more important than my life, and their right to hunt is more important than my privacy or property rights.:eek:

Does that about sum it up?
 
Malpasowildlifer said:
Even though the land owner was way out of line, it is best to contact the land owner first, to get permission to enter private property to retreive dogs or game.
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HOW?

If they were on public land and the dog strayed onto private property, what reason is there to believe that the hunters knew the landowner or his phone number? How would they contact him WITHOUT entering his land?

I'm VERY hardline when it comes to unrestrained and aggressive dogs on other people's property or in public. This seems entirely different to me. The dog was neither destructive nor threatening. The dog owner offered to retrieve the dog and leave. He was PREVENTED from doing that. The dog was leashed when shot, so clearly it was no credible threat to the landowner.

The guy is clearly a freak and unsafe around firearms.
 
I jest don't get it.....I've spent my entire life working to stay on the right side of the iron bars,

I don't think, I would put what time I have left in jeopardy over a dog or a chicken. :rolleyes:


But, that's me :D



.
Off Topic,

I used to 'lose' a big ol steer or two every fall at gather.

Guess someone need a beef....If a man came to me and
said he was in a bind and need to feed his family, I'd give with a cheerful heart.

Don't like a thief...But those who have, are subject to loss
 
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Mule Packer said:
I didn't say it made it right.

I can certainly see your point, and, no offense meant, but it's obvious you've never been around or hunted with hounds. .
Click to expand...

I too have Lewellin Setter and English setters, bird hunters are different then hounds.

I meant nothing personel, was just making a point. I would have went nuts if someone shot my dog.

I bet being next to public land, this happened to him a lot. Maybe he though I do this one time, the message will get across. Maybe he is just nuts.

But I also stand by you need to respect property lines. I have wondered over on to my neigbors 40 to look around. Not saying I am innocent. But if it was posted I would not, I also made an effort to learn and walk my property lines.


If the dogs run wild, then maybe they need to go to a place with more public land, make the effort to travel farther from the city.


I have seen tracks across my property, it is not posted. I don't really care. I'd be a little pissed if dogs can running through when I was deer hunting. Not that I would shoot the dog. A person, I would just wave through.

I suspect this was an on going problem with coon hunters, or maybe the guys was nuts. Dunno.
 
i think we have not heard the entire story... what information we do have paints the landowner as a bad person. maybe he is; maybe not ,he certainly seems to have displayed some poor decision making skills.
most people i know will shoot any dog running stock or wildlife on their property. sometimes there is a warning, usually "fluffy" just doesnt come home.
keith44- im a little surprised by your permissive attitude toward rustling. used to have an old ranching neighbor a wwII vet and former american citizen who stated that hed give any rustlers he caught a taste of "1885 wyoming justice" mostly i think people believed him.
he was a no nonsense kind of guy ,kinda fun to listen to him "cuss"(never in front of a lady) a great neighbor ,and a good stockman but had no time for lazy,dishonest people .he made me believe thats how people were down there in the wild west.
 
kamloops67 said:
keith44- im a little surprised by your permissive attitude toward rustling. used to have an old ranching neighbor a wwII vet and former american citizen who stated that hed give any rustlers he caught a taste of "1885 wyoming justice" mostly i think people believed him.
he was a no nonsense kind of guy ,kinda fun to listen to him "cuss"(never in front of a lady) a great neighbor ,and a good stockman but had no time for lazy,dishonest people .he made me believe thats how people were down there in the wild west.
Click to expand...


Well,

It's all in the percentages anyhows,

Ya always gonna lose a few...Dry gulchin a rustler could wind up costin more that a calf er two.

Jest sayin



.

Happy Huntin & Leave Those Gates Like Ya Found Em
 
Select State Laws on Hunting and Trespassing - FindLaw
Laws vary by state and time of year. In some states, you have the right to shoot a dog on your property, in others, you don't. Dogs chasing livestock can usually be shot.

In some states, getting caught shooting a dog can be expensive. The dog is property and has a value.

§ 2-39-110. Liability for injuring animals

If any person damaged for the want of a sufficient fence shall hurt, wound, lame, or kill, or cause the same thing to be done by shooting, hunting with a dog, or otherwise, any animal mentioned in this chapter, with the exception of a feral hog, the person shall be liable to the owner of the animal for double damages, with costs.
Click to expand...
Legal Rights and Duties in Lost Pet Disputes

In Arkansas it is taken seriously

Man faces felony charge in shooting of dog
 
Unless methods and new technical hardware has changed, when a dog is on "scent" or "chase", it is most of the time extremely difficult to "call" them back. You will have to chase them down.

I will never forget "Troubles" or his owner, a big, deep-voiced retired game warden. He, I, and another retired game warden were hunting quail. As we started the hunt he was doing a lot of bragging about "Troubles" and how he had finally gotten the dog to "Come" when called.

Then we started hunting Scaled and Gambels quail. For the rest of the long weekend hunt we consistently heard "Troubles!" being called out deep and loud, as well as choice, epithets and such. He would run off to chase the birds before we could get up on them. And when hunting these species they will always run until you flush them about twice, then they will "set". So...you must work the dogs in close to flush the birds and keep the dogs close as you may have to do it again. Back east a far-ranging quail dog is good. In Scaled and Gambels country it is not.

I hunted several years before and several years after with these two fine men and my biggest memory is of hearing, "Troubles!!" for about 3 1/2 days all day long.

However, as taught to me by these men. If you are close, or too close, to private land and do not have permission, you move your dogs away and hunt elsewhere. However, the caveat, is that with quail it works but running coons is different, they and your dogs will run long distances to tree. This includes running bears, cougars, and deer. At that point most hunters have little control on calling back the dogs.

I seem to think the punishments are fair. Land-owner got a lot of grief for what he did when you total up the entire "punishment package".

Also I know of the problems of "land-owners" in today's immoral world. I sympathize with them too.
 
jlrhiner said:
so... Here I am, on my property, minding my business, and suddenly I'm confronted by a group of large slobbering beasts. Oh and they're armed, and have dogs. And think they're dogs are more important than my life, and their right to hunt is more important than my privacy or property rights.:eek:

Does that about sum it up?
Click to expand...
No. I think you're talking about a different case. In this one, the hunters were not armed.
 
keith44spl said:
Them huntin' dogs need to learn to read those posted signs. ;):D


JERRY CLOWER--THE TALKING DOG.wmv - YouTube



.
Click to expand...

I just listened to a bunch of him on Youtube. Never heard of him. Was laughing. Graveyard dead. How shot the mule ,or how the train run over his coondog fighting with a coon, and he was afraid the dog would have though it was the coon who killed him. I wailed at the one.

One thing that monkey with the gun can't stand, is a lying coon dog.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3H8B_aW3ZQ



When hunting the burden is on you, to know where you are, not the owner of the land. Not saying I have wandered, if it wasn't posted. But usually briefly, and knowing I shouldn't he there.

You city boys come out the country and think you can do as you please.;)
On flipside sometimes country folks ain't to respectful of land that has changed hands, they been coming there all there life.
 
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I just wanted to put my two cents in on the subject since I started the post. I think the landowner overreacted and made a fool of himself and should have to pay for the guys dog. I have never understood why people get so bent out of shape when someone out hunting crosses their property? My family are all farmers and own a few thousand acres of land and if we catch people on our land we just ask them why they are there and do so in a friendly tone. If someone's dogs ruin our deer hunting we try to call them and let them know their dogs are out. We have found that if you do so in a polite manner, you will get what you want quicker than rasing nine kinds of you know what. If someone is stealing, poaching, or the like, we still don't go nuts, we call the authorities and let them handle it. I never understood someone getting beside themself when they find out a hunter has wandered onto their land not knowing excactly where they were at. I think some people are so mean, that deep down the want someone to trespass so they can act like a #@#.........................
 
If the OPs story is accurate, it seems the landowner used his gun to dispense his own opinions of justice. Not to defend life or property.
We are not going to make new gun rights supporters with pet killing stories.
I would think he committed a felony and his gun rights are in jeopardy. In PA killing pets is a felony.

On another note there is a difference between someone making a mistake and someone willfully disrespecting your property. Please do not lump all people together. That's whats happening with some peoples views of all gun owners.
 
Devil's advocate would say, we care about gun owners rights, but not property? Being secure in your home is a serious matter.

I suspect bring bordering public land, there has been an on going problem.

We also don't know if the hunters escalated matters, by telling him the dogs can't read your signs.

I saw mobile tracks across my cabin drive way over 1/4 mile then into woods, turn around and come back. I don't know why they would bother. Stuff like this is not good for the sport. But it didn't bother me, cause I am not there all the time. Plus I didn't want to start that feud.
 
redlevel said:
I'll tell y'all what . . . next time I'm close to your house, I'll just climb the fence and go in your backyard and cook me up a steak on your grill. I'll loosen a few boards on the fence while I'm at it, and leave a good sag in it. I'll let my dog **** in your yard and dig a few flowers in your wife's flower bed. I'll cut your garden hose and throw a few circles in your grass with my four wheeler while i'm there. I will just relieve myself on your patio while I'm there, so I won't have to actually break in your house.

I know you won't mind. After all, it just wouldn't be neighborly at all if you took offense at me taking such liberties with your property.:rolleyes:
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WOW!:eek:

Extreme much?

We are talking about the equivalent of climbing my fence to retreve your baseball, not the nonsence you are spouting.
 
Arkyvarminter said:
I just wanted to put my two cents in on the subject since I started the post. I think the landowner overreacted and made a fool of himself and should have to pay for the guys dog. I have never understood why people get so bent out of shape when someone out hunting crosses their property? My family are all farmers and own a few thousand acres of land and if we catch people on our land we just ask them why they are there and do so in a friendly tone. If someone's dogs ruin our deer hunting we try to call them and let them know their dogs are out. We have found that if you do so in a polite manner, you will get what you want quicker than rasing nine kinds of you know what. If someone is stealing, poaching, or the like, we still don't go nuts, we call the authorities and let them handle it. I never understood someone getting beside themself when they find out a hunter has wandered onto their land not knowing excactly where they were at. I think some people are so mean, that deep down the want someone to trespass so they can act like a #@#.........................
Click to expand...

Of course you're right. Civilized behavior goes a long way.

To answer your question, about why some landowners are so touchy...

Over the years I've posted on what hunters do when they cross or hunt my land.

They've:


  • Cut my fences to make paths for the deer/elk/ATV's/snow machines.
  • Ignored my no trespassing/hunting signs.
  • Poached and wounded animals out of season that I have to go out and put down.
  • Shot bald eagles off the nest
  • Left garbage rusting at my deer blinds.
  • Birdshot my dog. While the dog was in training, and wearing a hunters's orange collar.
  • Run ATV's over the lawn portion around the house.
  • Cut my trees [in a tree farm,] to make better shooting lanes for their poaching.
  • Ignored my wife when she told them they were on posted and private land and to leave.
  • Shot holes all through my pole barns and sheds.
On top of that, there has been some question of legal liability and exposure if a hunter wounds themselves or someone else while hunting your land. Here in Michigan, if you don't post no hunting/trespassing, it is legally "free to hunt."


I try to be a nice, polite, civilized person as my parents taught and my God requires...but it is hard to not be touchy!


Do as you would be done by is becoming a rarer quality every day.


Len
 
Len said:
Of course you're right. Civilized behavior goes a long way.

To answer your question, about why some landowners are so touchy...

Over the years I've posted on what hunters do when they cross or hunt my land.

They've:


  • Cut my fences to make paths for the deer/elk/ATV's/snow machines.
  • Ignored my no trespassing/hunting signs.
  • Poached and wounded animals out of season that I have to go out and put down.
  • Shot bald eagles off the nest
  • Left garbage rusting at my deer blinds.
  • Birdshot my dog. While the dog was in training, and wearing a hunters's orange collar.
  • Run ATV's over the lawn portion around the house.
  • Cut my trees [in a tree farm,] to make better shooting lanes for their poaching.
  • Ignored my wife when she told them they were on posted and private land and to leave.
  • Shot holes all through my pole barns and sheds.
On top of that, there has been some question of legal liability and exposure if a hunter wounds themselves or someone else while hunting your land. Here in Michigan, if you don't post no hunting/trespassing, it is legally "free to hunt."


I try to be a nice, polite, civilized person as my parents taught and my God requires...but it is hard to not be touchy!


Do as you would be done by is becoming a rarer quality every day.


Len
Click to expand...

I understand where your coming from. My uncle has had a problem with theives stealing his radiators off his power units that he uses to irrigate with. They do this in the winter and usually at night when no ones around. He said that if he caught them, and they were an adult, he would shoot them. He said he wouldn't shoot some kid doing it though. I told him that he would go to prison if he did shoot them and he stated that he was 70 years old and he has lived his life and he don't have many years left so he would just go to prison..I think he would really shoot them too. As far as letting people just hunt on his land, I've seen him tell people they could, as long as deer season was over so they wouldn't ruin our deer hunting. THis is mostly black people looking for a place to rabbit hunt. He's very generous with his land but he can't stand thieves.........
 
"Vengeance is mine"saith the Lord, but a man whose dog has been killed that way may well be of a mind to feel "Revenge is a dish best served cold." The landowner be well advised to watch his six from now on out, for ever and always.
 
jlrhiner said:
so... Here I am, on my property, minding my business, and suddenly I'm confronted by a group of large slobbering beasts. Oh and they're armed, and have dogs. And think they're dogs are more important than my life, and their right to hunt is more important than my privacy or property rights.:eek:

Does that about sum it up?
Click to expand...

If the dog goes running by on the tail of a raccoon or rabbit being chased by his master calling for him to come back and you decide to shoot the dog... yes that dogs life is more important than yours. If it came after you, your animals, family what ever... by all means defend your self and your property from an aggressive animal. It was obviously not a stray dog (from the info given) and no harm was done to anything... except the dog who did nothing wrong.

The neighbor kids foot ball bounced into my yard yesterday narrowly missing the front of my car. I didn't slash the ball open while he was holding and lead him off my property at gun point for it.
 
keith44spl said:
I jest don't get it.....I've spent my entire life working to stay on the right side of the iron bars,

I don't think, I would put what time I have left in jeopardy over a dog or a chicken. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

OK, the rest of the story. I started with a few Geese, a few ducks, and 2 dozen chickens. There was a Chow running loose in the subdivision, one out in the county with an average lot size of just over 3 acres, who would help its self to what were pretty much the wife's pets. I asked all the neighbors it it was their dog and if so please to keep it restrained. None claimed ownership.

The SO was called and said they had no animal control officers and the matter was too trivial to send out a deputy. I was asked if I had a shotgun and the call ended. A few weeks later the dog was in the yard with one of the few remaining chickens it its mouth. The dog was administered a 40 grain lead pill. It dropped the chicken and departed the area.

Later I see two of the neighbors talking in the street. Shortly one of them is at the front with a pistol in his hand hollering obscenities. He finally went back to his yard. Shortly deputy did show up. He went to the neighbors then pulled up in my drive. He asked if I was alone and if I was to go secure the house as he was planning to arrest me for cruelty to animals for killing the neighbors dog. I asked id he wanted to here my side of the story first and he did. I told him of the history of the disappearing chickens, the attempt to locate the owner, and the armed threats made. He said to wait there and he would be right back.

He went back over to the neighbor's place for a few minutes and returned. He said the neighbor said if I would pay him for the dog he would drop the issue. My response was I'd be happy to pay him for his dog after he paid me for 3 geese, 4 ducks, and 20 chickens along with all the eggs they would have produced. The deputy went back again and returned. I ask if I was still going to jail. He said "The man said it wasn't his dog" and he left.

Now, 15 years later, when I ask one of the neighbors to keep their dog off of my property they do.

So is your chicken killing dog worth it or not? In the end, evidently, his was not.
 
What I can tell you is this is not an uncommon occurance.
In E Texas, acts like this have started feuds that got a lot of people killed.
Sometimes the Sheriff just let the blood run til it was thru with---because there was no way to turn the feelings.
One thing for sure---you didn't go on anybodies property except by way of the drive and hat in hand.
You doubt my story about letting it go on til it was over ?
Just the way it was.
Blessings
 
Hunters, should be upset. It is these coon hunters who will get more land posted.

Again, I am not saying I would shoot the dogs.

People spend alot of money to buy their land, and alot if taxes. It is not right for people who didn't spend there money to get it.

If I shot a deer, I would probably cross over, and get it quick. The property is not posted, and I don;t know how to get a hold of the neighbors. If I ever meet them, I will let ask permission, and grant the same. But I also realize if run into them, they have the right to tell me to get out without my deer. I know this is hypocritcal on my part, but how I draw my line.
 
williamlayton said:
What I can tell you is this is not an uncommon occurance.
In E Texas, acts like this have started feuds that got a lot of people killed.
Sometimes the Sheriff just let the blood run til it was thru with---because there was no way to turn the feelings.
One thing for sure---you didn't go on anybodies property except by way of the drive and hat in hand.
You doubt my story about letting it go on til it was over ?
Just the way it was.
Blessings
Click to expand...
Part of my family was from Hemphill and Vidor. You speak the truth, amigo.:cool:
 
My house is urban country, farming area edge of town. I got 5 acres, neighbor 2/3. He just lets his dogs wander, says that is why he moved to the country. I saw BS, he didn't buy any property so he is not entitled to mine.

Dog craps in my driveway, but what really gets me is when it comes on the porch and jacks up my dogs when I am sleeping.

Guy has been unemployment most of the time I have known him. He feels entitled. We are subsidizing he mortgage payment, after his 2nd foreclosure attempt.

I would go over and drink with him though. But we finally had it out, cause his 2nd dog, 160lbs, around $1k is aggressive and out of control. I told them I don't want to run into there dog when I am walking my dogs. They are mad at me, saying it is my fault there dog is getting fat. I fenced my yard, more for my dogs safety. They choose not too.

Maybe the biggest problem with our society is people feel entitled to other people stuff. He would say I am not using all that land. 10k an acre where my house is at and high taxes. I am not paying $$ it for him.

First time I meet his gf want to plant garden on my property. Which wouldn't bother me, but it was the first few minutes I met her.
 
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