mg357
Absent Comrade
I say thank goodness lets hope the other services follow suit a.s.a.p.
Marines Going Back to Colt 1911 for Sidearm
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silentflyer
Member
It's about time...
+1
In Feb 1983 when I entered Basic & MP school, we still had the Colt .45's...very glad to see Colt handguns back in service...
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Just my personal opinion of course, but I have always felt that besides the real fancy - high priced guns sold by many many Company's, the BEST bang for the buck and the most accurate & reliable is still the Colt Gold Cup National Match. Even the Colt Government 1911 Series 70 (still being made today) is extremely accurate, has a great trigger, utterly reliable, and is the best standard 1911 out of the box. By the way their finishes are even better than before!
Chief38
Chief38
duckslayer74
Member
Nothing like a 1911.
I can't remember the last time I saw a Colt 1911 in a dealer case. The store at the indoor range I use said that they get one in occasionally but it's gone within a day or two.
Back in the 80s Colt 1911s were everywhere, but even then they were expensive so I picked up an AMT Hardballer for cheap instead. I still have that gun and it shoots pretty well, but a Colt Gold Cup sure was a pretty gun back then...
Back in the 80s Colt 1911s were everywhere, but even then they were expensive so I picked up an AMT Hardballer for cheap instead. I still have that gun and it shoots pretty well, but a Colt Gold Cup sure was a pretty gun back then...
GatorFarmer
Member
Five Wilson mags were seemingly issued when it was Kimbers.
Several types of .45 ammo see use. Off the top of my head I remember some 185 gr JHP.
Several types of .45 ammo see use. Off the top of my head I remember some 185 gr JHP.
Heck Bill I would be happy with the Hardballer, I have been thinking for quite a while about a Springfield Armory 1911, you can get those pretty cheaply comparatively speaking and trick them out with the 1911 parts.
MPDC
Member
Its, "Marine Corps", not Corp. Give me fifty!
Wow... lots of misinformation here.
Unless something drastic has changed, the Military is forbidden from using hollow points. It's all FMJ.
Unless they are issuing JHP for practice, which would make zero sense
Maddmax
US Veteran
Still have my 35 year+ old 1911 Colt Commander & Gold Cup. They were pricey (but worth it) then. Been thinking about getting a new set to just show the old and new together.
UncleEd
Member
Regarding hollow points whether 9mm or .45----in reviewing the use by the military, round noses must be used against enemy combatant soldiers.
But in Afghanistan, in particular, our enemy belong to terrorists groups and not covered by the Hague rules.
Or so I've read about U.S. government lawyers looking into the matter. I have a feeling special ops and CIA are using what they want or like.
Just did a quick Google and I see the Marines ordered up "open tip" assault rifle ammo and an illustration shows the mushrooming of the round. Also the Army has ordered hollow points for use, at least within the U.S., by its military police and agents.
But in Afghanistan, in particular, our enemy belong to terrorists groups and not covered by the Hague rules.
Or so I've read about U.S. government lawyers looking into the matter. I have a feeling special ops and CIA are using what they want or like.
Just did a quick Google and I see the Marines ordered up "open tip" assault rifle ammo and an illustration shows the mushrooming of the round. Also the Army has ordered hollow points for use, at least within the U.S., by its military police and agents.
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I read an article on these bid prices, and as a rule of thumb, it seems that if you divide total contract amount by the number of pieces, which is what you have done to reach the $1,875.00 figure, to get the cost per piece, divide again by 3 to get a rough idea of the actual cost per piece, which is in the case a pistol.
The remaining cost is for parts, spares, logistics, support and other such items. Thus, it is not fair or accurate to say that the Marine Corps is paying $1,875.00 just for a pistol.
Applying the above formula, I would say that I wish I could buy a new Colt for just the "per pistol" portion of the price without the logistics, spare parts, support, etc.
Fat Old Guy
Member
I stand corrected. The profits go to Italy and American workers can buy Chinese made stuff.
Texas Star
US Veteran
Re the 9mm and pilots, I recall a pilot who was shot down in Iraq and who could have probably kept Iraqi villagers away long enough for A-10 support aircraft to reach him. They were minutes away when he surrendered.
A USAF cop in the US (Fairchild AFB) used his M-9 and one round to kill an AK-47 -using thug at some 80 yards. But it takes more training and faith in the pistol than most pilots have! Few pilots probably train with the knife in case they have to silence a sentry or someone who stumbles on them, too. They aren't often suited for close range battle on the ground mentality.
As for using the 9mm in battle and if it works, I've posted here several times that my son dropped nine men in Iraq with 9mm's and hardball NATO ammo, all that he could get, although on one tour he was working as a contractor, not a soldier. They all fell, although not dead with one shot in every case. Sometimes, he had to exit the area quickly, without checking the bodies. But they did seem dead. One shot in the solar plexus (?) from across a room died within a minute, rather dramatically. Some here might prefer to avoid reading details. But he was incapable of further hostile action as he died.
Compared to the number of enemy he killed with the M-4 carbine, an H-K G-3, and by calling in air strikes and artillery on the enemy, the number of hostiles killed by his 9mm is small. But in several cases, it literally saved his life when his rifle ran dry and things were close and personal.
The handguns employed were the Beretta M-9 and a Browning MK III Hi-Power. He often wore the latter in a holster on his combat vest, where it was handy if he was seated in a vehicle and someone ran up and tried to grenade the car. There were some serious crazies in that war zone. One jerk ran up and stabbed my son 's gunner in a converted "gun truck" made by armoring a small pickup.
He survived, but had to be medically discharged with an impaired leg. A pistol shot in time would probably have saved him. (My son wasn't present when this happened.)
I should note that my son has used handguns since his early teens and was taught by me and by Jo Anne Hall, who was an IPSC world champion. What he can do with a pistol and what the average GI can accomplish with one are different things. (Special Ops personnel are FAR better trained with handguns than are most troops.)
For the record, my son likes the Colt. Govt. Model.45 best and the Browning Hi-Power second, although he carries JHP ammo in private life, now being a civilian. He says that he'd have used JHP's in Iraq, had he been able to do so, and that in hardball, he'd prefer the .45. But the ammo and available magazines did not support that. It was easier to get good 9mm mags, and more of them. Those by Beretta and by Meg-Gar worked fine. Some cheaper ones failed in other mens' hands, and some men failed to clean their weapons well, which may have contributed to that.
It is true that the M-9 is for big hands, and that many smaller and female personnel would be better off with a smaller gun. The SIG P-228 in US GI form, the M-11, was intended for them and some have it. The list includes CID and Naval NCIS types and Navy pilots. (Or, so I've read.)
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mkk41
US Veteran
Won't be general issue , just for SOCOM guys who get up close and personal.
They already do use 1911s by Les Baer and Ed Brown in limited numbers.
That's a very slipery slope that I am surprised the military would even consider going near.
The CIA... different story.
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