Marines on Guadalcanal - 1903 Springfields

[AJ]

Forgotten Weapons Ian said the Johnson LMG was the most unpleasant weapon he'd shot, and the Johnson rifle had a lot of recoil. I think the USMC got rid of them as soon as they could.

The Marines may not have liked the Johnson, but these guys did: First Special Service Force - Wikipedia

 

[Pig Hunter]

1st Special service Force had Johnny guns. They didn't like it when they had to turn them in for BAR's. The Raiders used many different weapons. One of them shot down a Jap sea plane as it was taking off with a British Boys anti-tank rifle, during the raid in Makin island before the Guadalcanal landings. The National Guard troops at Kaserine Pass had 03's that were so worn out if you put a full stripper clip in the magazine the door od the box would pop open and dump the rounds in the sand. And a lot of good men died when Macnimara shoved M-16 down their throats before the bugs were worked out. Young men have always been at the mercy of old men that didn't really have a grasp of the present or reality. But those young men have always done better than they should have.

 

[gkitch]

The book "SHOTS FIRED IN ANGER, A rifleman's-eye view the activities on the Island of Guadalcanal, in the Solomons …" by Lt. Col. John George gives pretty detailed coverage of the small arms used by U.S. and Japanese forces. George was in the Illinois National Guard and had been a competitive rifleman before the war and so he had a soft spot in his heart for the M1903 Springfield. Before shipping out he had been instructed to "Grab a couple of good '03 rifles and hang on to 'em … Find two with star-gauged barrels if possible."

The Marines efforts to latch on to M1s after the Army had come ashore on Guadalcanal is mentioned a couple of times either by 'moonlight requisition' or by trading souvenirs with any supply sergeant with an M1 to spare.

The book is pretty interesting and I believe has been reprinted. It can be found for less than $10 on ebay and secondhand book sellers.

Highly recommend "Shots Fired In Anger" as well. There is a longer version that includes his later exploits in Burma. White cover with a picture of him in combat gear - That's the version to read. Among the best WW2 memoirs. Brilliantly written by a highly skilled story teller, warrior, marksman, and patriot.

 

[kpoesq369]

My FIL said he carried an 03 on the canal, didn't get an M1 till later on. He was a linesman, and traded for a Reising to keep with him going up and down the poles running commo. Actually said he liked the Reusing and never had any issues. But his was right out of the cosmoline when he got it.

 

[eclayton]

Have seen enough references to the "redirecting of supply assets" where M1 Garands are concerned that I believe them. If the whole rifle can be "requisitioned, then obtaining the ammo is nothing to great to accomplish.

Nothing's too crazy to have happened at least once in WWII, but if anything, "trading up" for a stolen US Army M1 strikes me as something only some rear echelon guy could practically manage, someone who could make the bandolier he stole with it last for months. Ammo in an infantry unit went fast on Guadalcanal and without a supply chain supporting you, you'd soon be reduced to hunting in the jungle brush for spent M1 clips after a firefight. That's assuming no one in your own chain of command ever got curious where you got that new rifle and exactly what you did with your issued Springfield. But times were different so maybe it's possible.

Now using Army gear that the Army didn't "need" any more, I can vouch for that. A squad of my own men drove halfway across Iraq in 2003 in a HMWWV we found abandoned in the desert. It needed minor repair so some Army unit just ditched it. Our Motor T section patched up one of their shot-up fuel trucks and put it back into use. We recovered a .50 cal machine gun from the wreck of an ambushed Army convoy and fought with that until we got back to Kuwait. I slept for three months on a cot I rescued from a bonfire at an Army position where we stopped to obtain fuel (we drew the fuel; it was not midnight requisitioned). A good sized Marine formation could follow in trace and almost subsist on the stuff 3ID threw away on their march up.

 

[usmc2427765]

The Marines did make the Guadalcanal landing with 1903 Springfields. I worked for a Sgt.Major shortly before my discharge in 1971 and he would go to the Staff NCO Club and have his usual lunch, a bowl of Chili and 12 beers and when it was my turn I would go pick him up and would take him to the Staff NCO Bachelors quarters for a nice long nap.

I believe he liked me to some extent because he would tell me stories of his service in the Pacific during WW2 and Guadalcanal was one of his favorites. He made the landing told me the 1903 Springfield was the greatest battle rifle ever made and Patton was full of ****!!

He went on to make several more landings and when the 1st Marine Division was sent to Australia for regrouping after being shot too pieces, they were to be retrained and rearmed with the M-1. He told me that some of the old timers told the officers and snco's that they would kill anyone who tried to take them. History moved forward and the Marines were issued the M-1 and we won the war.

Time had not mellowed him very much and he had nothing good to say about the M-1, M-14 and that piece of **** 22 caliber plastic rifle. He made numerous landings including the " Frozen Chosin" . He also had several tours as a Drill Instructor. I honor his service and his wisdom he passed on to a young Sergeant that carried his wisdom into Law Enforcement.

 

[Muley Gil]

Chesty Puller joined the Corps in 1918 and was very fond of the Springfield 1903, calling it the perfect rifle, even after the M1 Garand came out.

After Guadalcanal, Chesty was sent to various Army bases to reassure the young soldiers that yes, the Japanese were very tough, but could be beaten by American servicemen. One trip that he made was to Aberdeen Proving Grounds, where he saw a demonstration of the flame thrower. He comment was, "Where do you attach the bayonet?"

 

[bill-in-texas]

...I remember somewhere seeing a photograph of Alexander Vandegrift speaking on a field phone on Guadalcanal, leaning on his M1903 Springfield rifle.

That picture is in The Springfield 1903 Rifles by Lt. Col. William S. Brophy, USAR, Retired. I'm certain it may be found elsewhere but, that's where I have seen it.

-Bill




...from page 357, Bayonets

 

[tlawler]

The Marines may not have liked the Johnson, but these guys did: First Special Service Force - Wikipedia

If I recall correctly, there was a sailor who was awarded the MOH in one of the island campaigns who used a pintle mounted Johnson LMG. I can't remember the details or find anything on the web about it. Perhaps I'm thinking of something else, but does that sound familiar to anyone?

 

[AJ]

If I recall correctly, there was a sailor who was awarded the MOH in one of the island campaigns who used a pintle mounted Johnson LMG. I can't remember the details or find anything on the web about it. Perhaps I'm thinking of something else, but does that sound familiar to anyone?

I believe this is who you were thinking of. He was a Coast Guardsman. He is the only Coast Guardsman to ever be awarded the Medal of Honor.

Douglas Albert Munro - Wikipedia

At Lunga Point, the landing craft were instructed to return and extract the besieged Marines.[23] Commander Dexter asked Munro and Evans if they would take charge of the mission, to which Munro answered, "Hell yes!"[4]:4[23] As the boats under Munro's charge approached the recovery points, they came under heavy fire from Japanese forces at a ridge abandoned by the Marines. Munro used a .30 caliber machine gun aboard his landing craft to direct suppressing fire against the Japanese positions as the other boats recovered the American forces. With Japanese troops moving against the beach, Munro piloted his boat closer to shore to act as a shield. Though the initial extraction was successful, one of the LCTs became grounded on a sandbar. Munro directed the other LCT to help extricate the grounded vessel as he maneuvered his own boat to shield the Marines from Japanese fire from the shore. Munro was shot in the base of his skull and lost consciousness.[4]:4

The LCT was ultimately freed and the boats resumed their withdrawal. When out of range of Japanese forces, Munro briefly regained consciousness before succumbing to his wounds. According to Evans, his dying words were, "Did they get off?"[4]:4–5[9] Evans said later that "... seeing my affirmative nod, he smiled with that smile I knew and liked so well, and then he was gone".[23]

 

[VaTom]

In further reading of "Hell in the Pacific - A Marine Rifleman's Journey from Guadalcanal to Peleliu", the 1st Marine Division was pulled off Guadalcanal in December of 1942. They were taken to Melborne, Australia for rest, refit, receiving replacements and training. It was there that they were issued their M1's and the K-Bar knives. After a number of months their next campaign was at Cape Gloucester on New Britain and later Peleliu.

Great book. I highly recommend.

 

[Drm50]

There are more tales about weapons than you can shake a stick at and most of them are just tales. While it could happen taking a combat troops weapon would cause SHF. I don't know about WW2 but weapons lost in combat were wrote off. If you want to witness a big stink, be around were a weapon comes up missing on stateside base.

 

[tlawler]

I believe this is who you were thinking of. He was a Coast Guardsman. He is the only Coast Guardsman to ever be awarded the Medal of Honor.

Douglas Albert Munro - Wikipedia

At Lunga Point, the landing craft were instructed to return and extract the besieged Marines.[23] Commander Dexter asked Munro and Evans if they would take charge of the mission, to which Munro answered, "Hell yes!"[4]:4[23] As the boats under Munro's charge approached the recovery points, they came under heavy fire from Japanese forces at a ridge abandoned by the Marines. Munro used a .30 caliber machine gun aboard his landing craft to direct suppressing fire against the Japanese positions as the other boats recovered the American forces. With Japanese troops moving against the beach, Munro piloted his boat closer to shore to act as a shield. Though the initial extraction was successful, one of the LCTs became grounded on a sandbar. Munro directed the other LCT to help extricate the grounded vessel as he maneuvered his own boat to shield the Marines from Japanese fire from the shore. Munro was shot in the base of his skull and lost consciousness.[4]:4

The LCT was ultimately freed and the boats resumed their withdrawal. When out of range of Japanese forces, Munro briefly regained consciousness before succumbing to his wounds. According to Evans, his dying words were, "Did they get off?"[4]:4–5[9] Evans said later that "... seeing my affirmative nod, he smiled with that smile I knew and liked so well, and then he was gone".[23]

Thanks for posting that. Great story of heroism. My apologies to the Coast Guardsmen here, I was thinking Navy.

 

[Doug M.]

I have seen many reports/stories of hard men doing hard things. Not having the personal investment of most of those who tell the stories, what I see is that our military from the Revolution until today has been full of men (and now women) who do great things under vile conditions, and should be recognized for that performance.