Marlin .444 lever action Questions

[Hawkeye3844]

Fantastic cartridge. Never thought I'd have a use for a triple 4 until I shot one owned by my brother.

Often they are compared to 45-70's. I own Marlins in both and while their effective use can overlap, they are also different. 444's are at their best when loaded to near max velocities with 265-300 grain bullets. (This is for the older MG barrels). They definitely shoot flatter than 45-70's with similar weight bullets. The 45-70 surpasses a 444 when bullet weights get over 350 grains and work well when real heavy weights are desired. Also loading 45-70's down to around 1300 fps is easy on the shoulder and they'll still be quite accurate. A 400 grain bullet at that speed is still very effective on big animals.

If i could only keep one, it would be the 444. It's just that good.

Dan

My buddy would wholeheartedly agree with you!
He has said his .444 has done more bang-flops than anything else he owns.
His is an older one, 1 in 38 twist, microgroove barrel. It isn't supposed to stabilize 300 gr bullets, but it does.
He likes the 265 gr flat nose jacketed Hornady bullets, because they are just that good. He's taken deer, elk, and moose with his. The last elk he got when hunting with it was a bang-flop. He said it hit so hard that the dust it kicked up made it so he couldn't see it. He thought it ran off, and was worried he would have to track it. Well, he didn't have to worry when he got up to it. DRT!
He talked me into getting mine. I have yet to shoot it, but I'm going to test it on wild hogs down here first. Then it'll be ready for anything else.


Hawk

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[dr. mordo]

I hope that you have a sturdy shoulder. Back quite a few years ago a friend had a .458 that he took to Africa. He shot a elephant and I don't remember what else. He insisted that I shoot it. I did, twice, and for a long time when I moved the shoulder, you could feel the calcium deposits that it loosened just grinding away.
I was a lot more recoil sensitive than him. His idea of target practice was to shoot a Model 29 with heavy loads.

I bought the .458 knowing that it is a absolute beast, and my intent has always been to load it to 45-70 levels and then work up from there to see how much abuse I want to take.

The sad part is the pandemic shut down our range for months - before I could get there with my M70! It reopened a little while back, so I need to load up some rounds and start testing/playing. I and my wife are both high risk, and the pandemic has been bad enough down here that we are still trying to stay at home as much as possible.

Sorry for the thread derail. The fact is that I love lever guns and would have been just as happy with a 444 if I had found one for a good price. Lever guns have always appealed to me (too many cowboy movies), and I would love to have a couple more of them. My Rossi 92 in 44 Mag needs a big brother...

 

[Hairtrigger]

I sold my Win big bore, still have 5 boxes of factory ammo if your friend needs ammo
240gr bullets

 

[Alpo]

This thread was eye-opening. I always thought the "allure" (if there was any) of the 444 Marlin was because Mack Bolan, The Executioner, used one in his war against the Mafia.

 

[sandog]

I hunted all over the Rockies with Marlin .45/70s but never was excited about the .444. Kind of like why buy a .41 mag when you could get a .44 Mag, and have a lot more choices in loaded ammo and bullets, and greater diameter and bullet weight ?
Fans of the .444 ( and .41 Mag.) will tell you they are so much flatter shooting than the .45/70 ( or .44 Mag), well, slightly, but the appeal of such rounds is diameter and bullet weight, not velocity or a laser like trajectory.

I guided hunters, hunted the dark timber and wilderness camped in Grizzly country around Yellowstone and carried my Marlin with 400 grain Barnes soft points loaded to 1750, that just made more sense to me than the "souped up .44 Magnum" .444 with faster 265 or 300 grain bullets did.

Now there are more choices for heavier, tougher bullets for the .444, but back in the day the Hornady 265 was all there was.
Any stories of the .444 lacking penetration or ruining meat was because guys were using the 240 grain factory loads.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

With Marlin rifles the 444 came FiRST. It was later they produced the 45/70. I have both and prefer the 444 for hunting.

 

[sandog]

Actually, Marlin was the first company to bring out a .45/70 repeater, in 1881, quite a bit earlier than the 1964 introduction of the .444.
I see you are in South Carolina, so I can see where you find the .444 preferable.

Get out to Montana, Alaska or Wyoming and you might wish you had a .45/70.
Pic of an 1881 Marlin in .45/70:

 

[sandog]

With Marlin rifles the 444 came FiRST. It was later they produced the 45/70. I have both and prefer the 444 for hunting.

So you were only off by 83 years.
When Marlin came out with the 1881, they produced a rugged .45/70 lever repeater 5 years before Winchester came out with the 1886.

I fired a first year production 1881 with double set triggers that an old neighbor had. it was in pristine shape, looked like it was made last year.

 

[murf205]

So my buddy asks me to be on the lookout for a Marlin .444 lever action. He is dead set on getting one so I'm curious

What is the allure of this model? This caliber?

He wants it for deer hunting and maybe black bear in the northeast.

Anyone own one? Anything to be concerned about? What to look for if I find a used one to avoid any headaches. Is it hard to reload for?

I told him you picked a lousy time to look for a new gun especially one in a non standard cartridge.

Thanks in advance

Is he a handloader or are you going to load for it? If so, I would look for a newer one with the Ballard rifling in case he wanted to shoot cast bullets to hunt or plink with. Micro Groove barrels will work with cast but it takes a good bit of tweeking the size and alloy to get it to work. Ballard is very forgiving and just as accurate or more so. For jacketed loads the 265 Hornady is a good one but the 270 gr Speer is good as well. There is a brand new one on Gunbroker right now for $749+$35 shipping and no credit card fee. It looks like that is about as good as you are going to do in the gun starved climate we are in now, unfortunately, good luck. Murf

 

[BearBio]

My (ex)brother and I handload. I had the 45-70, he had the 444. The 45-70 beat it at all things. He shot one wild pig (small) with it and I shot a large pig with mine. After guiding on wild pigs for several years in Central Cali, I saw several pigs of all sizes shot with both. My opinion based on experience: The 444 is good for smaller animals (blactail deer, smaller pigs) but the 45-70 can be just as good with handloads. The 45-70 beats it on bigger, tougher game.

 

[Narragansett]

I did not read all the comments, but find an older one, and you will be dazzled at what you can do handloading this caliber I think there was just one on the for sale forum of this website. Might still be there. I would buy nothing after Remington took them over

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

So you were only off by 83 years.
When Marlin came out with the 1881, they produced a rugged .45/70 lever repeater 5 years before Winchester came out with the 1886.

I fired a first year production 1881 with double set triggers that an old neighbor had. it was in pristine shape, looked like it was made last year.

I was refering to the modern introduction in the 90's..........You knew that.

 

[Hawkeye3844]

My (ex)brother and I handload. I had the 45-70, he had the 444. The 45-70 beat it at all things. He shot one wild pig (small) with it and I shot a large pig with mine. After guiding on wild pigs for several years in Central Cali, I saw several pigs of all sizes shot with both. My opinion based on experience: The 444 is good for smaller animals (blactail deer, smaller pigs) but the 45-70 can be just as good with handloads. The 45-70 beats it on bigger, tougher game.

What bullet weights was he using?
If he was using 240 gr bullets, then I can see why he would have problems.
They don't penetrate, and pretty much explode on impact when they hit something substantial.
The Hornady 265 gr Jacketed Flat Nose was a sturdy made bullet specifically made for the .444, and the Speer 270 gr Hot Core are both designed for the .444! Anything heavier in bullet weight will work as well as a .45-70.
I have 300 gr Bear Tooth Wide Flat Nose Hard Cast Gas Check bullets that will work as well as the .45-70 does.
My buddy uses Bear Tooth bullets as well, and has never had a problem with taking the largest game in Wyoming, mainly elk, and moose.
Moose soak up ft.-lbs of energy like a heavy weight champ getting hit with body blows. They just stand there, and meander a little bit before expiring.
I can get 300 gr bullets going at 2100 fps or a little more.
But to say the .45-70 is better I think is subjective to what bullets your brother was using.
You made no mention of that.
Just saying.



Hawk

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[BigMuddy]

444 vs 45-70
44 mag vs 41 mag
45 Colt vs 44 mag
30-06 vs 270
30-30 vs 35 Rem

All make interesting reading and passionate opinions.

All i can add is..... I've never owned a 270. ��

Dan

 

[sandog]

I was refering to the modern introduction in the 90's..........You knew that.

Yeah, I figured that you meant the reintroduction, but it was 1972, not the 90's.