Maximum load 45 ACP
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max loads
That is not unusual as test conditions vary from one company to the others. In any event, no matter what a manual says a max load is, that may or may not be max for your firearm. Start with the minimum suggested load or a tad less, then work up to your firearms max load. For what it's worth, the max load is not necessarily the best load.
That is not unusual as test conditions vary from one company to the others. In any event, no matter what a manual says a max load is, that may or may not be max for your firearm. Start with the minimum suggested load or a tad less, then work up to your firearms max load. For what it's worth, the max load is not necessarily the best load.
max loads
Are your load manuals from different bullet manufacturers?If so, remember each uses different componants.Also,example, a Sierra bullet is going to differ in certain ways to a Hornady or speer,even though it is the same weight and style.Classic example is a Sierra 230gn. FMJ max gn.bullseye is 5.2. Speer 230gn. FMJ max gn. bullseye is 5.7.Bullet design has direct bearing on pressure.
Are your load manuals from different bullet manufacturers?If so, remember each uses different componants.Also,example, a Sierra bullet is going to differ in certain ways to a Hornady or speer,even though it is the same weight and style.Classic example is a Sierra 230gn. FMJ max gn.bullseye is 5.2. Speer 230gn. FMJ max gn. bullseye is 5.7.Bullet design has direct bearing on pressure.
GyMac
US Veteran
A 0.3 grain difference doesn't seem very much at all, given different lots, testing conditions, etc.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Excellent response to this question. Every firearm ever produced is somewhat different than every other one. Every lot of powder produced is somewhat different than every other one (bullets, primers, cartridge cases, etc all display the same variations). Every test ever conducted was done under different climactic conditions, using different firearams, and under different circumstances.
There are so many variables, from ambient temperature and humidity to seating depth and crimping, that it is not possible to compare one set of results to another set of results.
Start with the minimum recommended charge of the intended powder (using the same case, primer, seating depth, cartridge OAL, etc, etc, etc), then you may work up to a load that functions well in your pistol without warning signs of undue pressures (flattened primers, case bulging, etc, etc, etc).
There is nothing to be gained by loading to maximums. All you will be doing is stressing every component (cartridge case, primer, barrel, chamber, receiver, frame, etc, etc, etc) to an unnecessary degree with every shot.
Settle in on a load that operates in your pistol properly, shows no signs of undue pressure, and performs to your expectations consistently. You will be happy with the consistent results, and your pistol will give you a long service life without problems.
Best regards.
novalty
Member
Berry's Bullets are plated, and they don't recommend loading past mid-range of a comparable weighed load recommendation for the FMJ equivalent in weight and shape.
This is direct from their FAQ section of their website. http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q9-c1-How_do_I_load_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx
This is direct from their FAQ section of their website. http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q9-c1-How_do_I_load_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx
dickttx
Member
I presume your inquiry is not really related to wanting to load a maximum load, but to the really contridictory handgun load information, particuliarily regarding lead bullets.
When I started reloading in the late 60's it was primarily for rifles. You selected a specific bullet, primer, case and powder from available tables and worked up from there.
After being away from it for several years (decades) I started reloading again about a year ago, for handguns. Wanting a load for a 45ACP 200gn MBC RNFP I began searching. Basically I found four loads for such a critter, 2 from the Lyman manual and one from the Lee, and one from Hodgdon.
The Lymans were a three band, two groove and a two band, one groove. The Hodgdon was a LSWC and the Lee 200gn did not give a configuration. I am wanting to use Unique and/or HP38 (Lyman does not show loads for HP38, but 231 instead). I found the following loads:
Lyman 452460: WW231, 4.0/6.0gn, CUP 9200/18000, 1.235 OAL
Unique, 5.0/7.5gn, CUP 7700/16600, 1.235 OAL
Lyman 452630: WW231, 5.4/6.1gn, CUP 12700/16300, 1.161 OAL
Unique, 6.0/7.5gn, CUP 11400/17400, 1.161 OAL
Hodgdon 200LSWC: W231/HP38, 4.4/5.6gn, CUP11000/16900, 1.225
Lee 200gn Lead: HP38 4.4/5.6gn, CUP 16,900 1.225 OAL
Unique 5.1/5.1gn, CUP 9,600 1.190 OAL
According to Lyman, the second bullet with Unique develops less pressure than the first, with a significantly shorter OAL, while the opposite is true for W231.
Lee shows only one loading with Unique that is 1/3 less powder than Lyman, but with significantly more pressure (9600 vs 7700+.)
I do not know how to rationally insert the MBC LRNFP into this data. It seems you have to just pick a spot and start loading. I don't belive you can follow the loading tables exactly, therefore you have to do a lot of searching and use the dreaded internet data as a starting point.
When I started reloading in the late 60's it was primarily for rifles. You selected a specific bullet, primer, case and powder from available tables and worked up from there.
After being away from it for several years (decades) I started reloading again about a year ago, for handguns. Wanting a load for a 45ACP 200gn MBC RNFP I began searching. Basically I found four loads for such a critter, 2 from the Lyman manual and one from the Lee, and one from Hodgdon.
The Lymans were a three band, two groove and a two band, one groove. The Hodgdon was a LSWC and the Lee 200gn did not give a configuration. I am wanting to use Unique and/or HP38 (Lyman does not show loads for HP38, but 231 instead). I found the following loads:
Lyman 452460: WW231, 4.0/6.0gn, CUP 9200/18000, 1.235 OAL
Unique, 5.0/7.5gn, CUP 7700/16600, 1.235 OAL
Lyman 452630: WW231, 5.4/6.1gn, CUP 12700/16300, 1.161 OAL
Unique, 6.0/7.5gn, CUP 11400/17400, 1.161 OAL
Hodgdon 200LSWC: W231/HP38, 4.4/5.6gn, CUP11000/16900, 1.225
Lee 200gn Lead: HP38 4.4/5.6gn, CUP 16,900 1.225 OAL
Unique 5.1/5.1gn, CUP 9,600 1.190 OAL
According to Lyman, the second bullet with Unique develops less pressure than the first, with a significantly shorter OAL, while the opposite is true for W231.
Lee shows only one loading with Unique that is 1/3 less powder than Lyman, but with significantly more pressure (9600 vs 7700+.)
I do not know how to rationally insert the MBC LRNFP into this data. It seems you have to just pick a spot and start loading. I don't belive you can follow the loading tables exactly, therefore you have to do a lot of searching and use the dreaded internet data as a starting point.
That's amazing: you found FOUR books with listings for Berry bullets?!?!?
Or are you making the mistake of looking at listings for other bullets and ASSuming the data are valid for Berry bullets?
I usually have to start with a mid-range load for a Berry bullet and adjust with my chronograph to get a specific power factor because Berry data is like hen's teeth.
By the way, if you want to go faster, rather than try to use a max load of Bullseye powder, move to a slower powder. You really don't want to strip the plating on a Berry bullet and get patterns instead of groups. Ask me how I know......
Or are you making the mistake of looking at listings for other bullets and ASSuming the data are valid for Berry bullets?
I usually have to start with a mid-range load for a Berry bullet and adjust with my chronograph to get a specific power factor because Berry data is like hen's teeth.
By the way, if you want to go faster, rather than try to use a max load of Bullseye powder, move to a slower powder. You really don't want to strip the plating on a Berry bullet and get patterns instead of groups. Ask me how I know......
robctwo
Member
If you are looking for the best load for your gun for accuracy you will need to load a range of charges and try them out. I shoot 50 rounds at .1 grain difference through the mid range of suggested loads. I will shoot a few at the minimum and maximum to see how they perform as well. I really like 200 gr swc at the lower end for extended range sessions.
If you are looking for best stopping power, go to 230 gr bullets and get them running around 800-825 fps.
If you are looking for best stopping power, go to 230 gr bullets and get them running around 800-825 fps.
fredj338
Member
Well here is the bad news, none of the manuals you have read are using Berry's so you actually have no real data source. Berry's are a plated soft lead bullet & should be loaded between an all lead & a jacketed bullet. I would take the avg middle data for a 200grLTC & then use that as my starting point. Work up in small 10rd lots, increasing in 0.1gr increments. Load to the longest OAL that your bbl & mag will accept.
noylj
Member
This is all very simple:
Take a couple reloading manuals (minimum), look up starting and max loads for your bullet weight (and lead/plated or jacketed bullet).
Take the LOWEST starting load as your STARTING load. Work up from there. Stop when pressure/recoil is equal or more than factory or accuracy is getting worse. Never try to load to Max. If you need more velocity, go to a different cartridge.
For all thinly Cu-plated bullets (Berry's or Rainier), start with the lowest lead starting load and DO NOT exceed the mid-range jacketed load (personally, I would stop at the lead bullet max).
Start at 3.5 gn and work up to 4.7gn. Above that, and you REALLY need to watch for pressure signs and should be running a chrono.
Here is a compilation of data:
.45 ACP
Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Start/Max Power Factor COL
Saeco-Cramer 5G 200 Bullseye 3.1 Bullseye/Target 0
H&G 68 200 Bullseye 3.3 Bullseye/Target 0
H&G 68 200 Bullseye 3.5 Bullseye/Target 0
H&G 130 200 Bullseye 3.5 Bullseye/Target 0
L-SWC 195 Bullseye 3.5 680 Start 133
swaged L-SWC 200 Bullseye 3.5 727 Start 145
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 3.5 645 Start/Accurate 129
Lyman LSWC 200 Bullseye 3.6 Bullseye pet load 0
H&G 130 200 Bullseye 3.6 Bullseye/Target 0
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 3.6 Start 0
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 3.7 Favorite 3.7-4.0 0
swaged L-SWC 200 Bullseye 3.7 650 Start Bullseye 130 1.245
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 3.8 Favorite/Target 0 1.260
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 3.9 0 1.250
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.0 Bullseye pet load
H&G 78 200 Bullseye 4.0 Bullseye/Target 0
H&G 130 200 Bullseye 4.0 Bullseye/Target 0
swaged L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.0 811 Max/Accurate 162
RCBS #45-201K SWC 201 Bullseye 4.0 820 Target 165
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.0 790 Target/Max 158 1.190
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.1 700 140
H&G 68 LSWC 200 Bullseye 4.2 Bullseye pet load 0
Cast L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.2 732 Start 146
swaged L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.2 744 Start 149 1.185
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.2 790 158
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.4 750 Target 150
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.5 837 167 1.250
swaged L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.6 807 Max 161 1.185
L-SWC, L-C/T 200 Bullseye 4.6 800 Start 160 1.245
Cast L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.7 820 Max 164
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.8 800 160
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.9 890 Start 178
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.9 900 180
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.9 950 190 1.260
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 5.0 850 Hardball load 170 1.160
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 5.0 834 Max 167 1.255
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 5.0 860 Max 172
L-SWC 195 Bullseye 5.0 895 Not Max 175
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 5.0 834 167 1.255
RCBS #45-201K SWC 201 Bullseye 5.0 905 182
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 5.1 850 170
swaged L-SWC 200 Bullseye 5.5 900 Max 180
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 6.2 918 Max 184
L-SWC, L-C/T 200 Bullseye 6.3 1000 Max 200
PJM 200 Bullseye 4.5 700 Start 140
PJM 200 Bullseye 5.8 850 Max 170
Take a couple reloading manuals (minimum), look up starting and max loads for your bullet weight (and lead/plated or jacketed bullet).
Take the LOWEST starting load as your STARTING load. Work up from there. Stop when pressure/recoil is equal or more than factory or accuracy is getting worse. Never try to load to Max. If you need more velocity, go to a different cartridge.
For all thinly Cu-plated bullets (Berry's or Rainier), start with the lowest lead starting load and DO NOT exceed the mid-range jacketed load (personally, I would stop at the lead bullet max).
Start at 3.5 gn and work up to 4.7gn. Above that, and you REALLY need to watch for pressure signs and should be running a chrono.
Here is a compilation of data:
.45 ACP
Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Start/Max Power Factor COL
Saeco-Cramer 5G 200 Bullseye 3.1 Bullseye/Target 0
H&G 68 200 Bullseye 3.3 Bullseye/Target 0
H&G 68 200 Bullseye 3.5 Bullseye/Target 0
H&G 130 200 Bullseye 3.5 Bullseye/Target 0
L-SWC 195 Bullseye 3.5 680 Start 133
swaged L-SWC 200 Bullseye 3.5 727 Start 145
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 3.5 645 Start/Accurate 129
Lyman LSWC 200 Bullseye 3.6 Bullseye pet load 0
H&G 130 200 Bullseye 3.6 Bullseye/Target 0
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 3.6 Start 0
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 3.7 Favorite 3.7-4.0 0
swaged L-SWC 200 Bullseye 3.7 650 Start Bullseye 130 1.245
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 3.8 Favorite/Target 0 1.260
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 3.9 0 1.250
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.0 Bullseye pet load
H&G 78 200 Bullseye 4.0 Bullseye/Target 0
H&G 130 200 Bullseye 4.0 Bullseye/Target 0
swaged L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.0 811 Max/Accurate 162
RCBS #45-201K SWC 201 Bullseye 4.0 820 Target 165
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.0 790 Target/Max 158 1.190
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.1 700 140
H&G 68 LSWC 200 Bullseye 4.2 Bullseye pet load 0
Cast L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.2 732 Start 146
swaged L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.2 744 Start 149 1.185
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.2 790 158
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.4 750 Target 150
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.5 837 167 1.250
swaged L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.6 807 Max 161 1.185
L-SWC, L-C/T 200 Bullseye 4.6 800 Start 160 1.245
Cast L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.7 820 Max 164
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.8 800 160
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.9 890 Start 178
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.9 900 180
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 4.9 950 190 1.260
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 5.0 850 Hardball load 170 1.160
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 5.0 834 Max 167 1.255
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 5.0 860 Max 172
L-SWC 195 Bullseye 5.0 895 Not Max 175
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 5.0 834 167 1.255
RCBS #45-201K SWC 201 Bullseye 5.0 905 182
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 5.1 850 170
swaged L-SWC 200 Bullseye 5.5 900 Max 180
L-SWC 200 Bullseye 6.2 918 Max 184
L-SWC, L-C/T 200 Bullseye 6.3 1000 Max 200
PJM 200 Bullseye 4.5 700 Start 140
PJM 200 Bullseye 5.8 850 Max 170
Murdock
Member
The 200 grain cast SWC is a very popular bullet for the .45ACP for good reason. It is accurate, fairly cheap and makes really neat holes.
I use about 5.0 grains of Bullseye under that bullet only because Jeff Cooper stated that it gave recoil equivalent to GI ball, and recoil management training is important. It is my only practice load, either in revolvers or pistols. I have found no reason for more power for practice.
Traditionally the best high-end load for that bullet uses Unique, and goes north of 7.0 grains of powder. Again, some manuals say less than 7.0. I used to employ that load (it is LOUD
), before the superb 230-grain HP bullets became available from most of the commercial loaders, and would again if those were not available for some reason.
I use about 5.0 grains of Bullseye under that bullet only because Jeff Cooper stated that it gave recoil equivalent to GI ball, and recoil management training is important. It is my only practice load, either in revolvers or pistols. I have found no reason for more power for practice.
Traditionally the best high-end load for that bullet uses Unique, and goes north of 7.0 grains of powder. Again, some manuals say less than 7.0. I used to employ that load (it is LOUD
), before the superb 230-grain HP bullets became available from most of the commercial loaders, and would again if those were not available for some reason.Dave T
Member
Just FYI, I load Berry's 230g RN and 200g RS bullets over 6g of 231. The 230g RN duplicates Ball @ ~830 fps. No stripping of the plating or other signs of excess pressure. The 200g RS gives me 885-900 fps, depending on barrel length. Again no pressure signs and no stripping of the copper plating.
I know you didn't ask about 231 but thought the info about plated bullets performing at those velocities without problems might be useful.
Dave
I know you didn't ask about 231 but thought the info about plated bullets performing at those velocities without problems might be useful.
Dave
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
If you want THE load for 45ACP and a plated bullet, here it is, period. Look no further:
230gr Plated RN bullet
4.7gr Bullseye
1.250" OAL
Apply a firm taper crimp being careful not to damage the plating. You can get these kinds of results or better with the above mentioned load:
230gr Plated RN bullet
4.7gr Bullseye
1.250" OAL
Apply a firm taper crimp being careful not to damage the plating. You can get these kinds of results or better with the above mentioned load:
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