Mexico sues U.S. gunmakers

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These are excerpts from an article by Douglas Andrews as it appeared in Patriot Post.

On Tuesday, that failed state to our south had its day in court, as the U.S. Supreme Court heard oral arguments in Smith & Wesson Brands v. Estados Unidos Mexicanos, a $10 billion lawsuit filed by the Mexican government against S&W and six other American gun manufacturers. The massive suit alleges that the gunmakers are intentionally marketing their weapons to the Mexican drug cartels, which then use them to slaughter children, judges, journalists, cops, and anyone else who gets in their way.

As CBS News reports: “The legal battle marks the first time that the Supreme Court will consider a federal law known as the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, or PLCAA. Enacted with bipartisan support from Congress in 2005, the law provides a legal shield for gun companies from civil suits seeking to hold them liable for harms stemming from the criminal misuse of their products by another person.”

Thankfully, it looks like the High Court is poised to give the Mexican government a good stiff-arm. If the tone of Tuesday’s arguments is any indication, even the Supremes’ liberal wing seems disinclined to hold law-abiding American companies accountable for the firearms that are regularly trafficked across our southern border.

At issue is whether the suit can move forward because it rates an exception to PLCAA’s liability shield. That exception says that gunmakers and sellers can be sued if they knowingly broke the law and thereby injured Mexico, whose government claims that the defendants are “aiding and abetting the unlawful sale of their firearms to straw purchasers, which are then trafficked across the southern border for the cartels.”

Justice Elena Kagan wondered who, exactly, the gunmakers are “aiding and abetting in this complaint,” while Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson said that the lawsuit doesn’t even seem to be alleging that the gunmakers knowingly violated the law.

Justice Brett Kavanaugh, for his part, worried about the slippery slope that might lead to liability and lawsuits against other lawful American industries.

The defendants’ lawyer, Noel Francisco, points to the Rube Goldbergian nature of the plaintiffs’ blame game: “That chain starts with the federally licensed manufacturers, flows to wholesalers who sell to licensed dealers, who then engage in unlawful sales of guns that are trafficked into Mexico and land with the cartels. The final links are the guns being used to commit crimes that injure property and people, and the Mexican government being forced to spend money to respond to that fallout.”

Can the gunmakers be legally liable because they know that some small share of weapons end up being sold illegally and because they don’t do more to stop it? Francisco responds: “No case in history supports that theory.”

In a Wall Street Journal op-ed, former Trump Attorney General William Barr calls the Mexican government’s theory of liability “absurd,” noting that the “age-old doctrine of ‘proximate cause’ ensured that parties can be held liable only for harms that are the direct and immediate consequence of their own actions.”

Barr adds that the tactic of bankrupting the gun industry via an onslaught of nuisance litigation had been tried before: “In the late 1990s and early 2000s, activists in deep-blue state and local governments invented novel tort theories to hold America’s legal and heavily regulated gun industry responsible for urban crime.”

It didn’t work then, and it shouldn’t work now, Barr believes. He points to Mexico’s failure to stand up to the cartels. “Violence continued and the cartels tightened their grip on Mexican society,” he writes. “What better way to deflect blame than to claim that the American gun industry was responsible for the cartels’ success?”

This, it seems to us, is the real issue: The Mexican government is unable to protect its people, and it’s trying to set up the American gun manufacturing industry as the “proximate cause” fall guy.

My sense is that the Supreme Court isn’t buying it.
 
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I say let them sue, IF Mexico gives us 75k per year, per Mexican citizen that's in this country illegally. Retroactively for one decade and going forward to 2099.

Because I'm a live and let live kinda guy ;)
 
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Not that the anti-gunners in this country give a rodent's rectum about unintended consequences...if they get their way to sue gunmakers out of existence then all sorts of tort law will fall...carmakers being made responsible for what drunk drivers do its the legal products they build and sell...makers of kitchen cutlery...any legal product that can potentially be misused whether criminally or unintentionally.

That doesn't even to touch on the effect on national security...becoming dependent on non-American suppliers of armaments and equipment...medicines (more than we are now)...you name it.
 
These are excerpts from an article by Douglas Andrews as it appeared in Patriot Post.

On Tuesday, that failed state to our south had its day in court, as the U.S. Supreme Court heard oral arguments in Smith & Wesson Brands v. Estados Unidos Mexicanos, a $10 billion lawsuit filed by the Mexican government against S&W and six other American gun manufacturers. The massive suit alleges that the gunmakers are intentionally marketing their weapons to the Mexican drug cartels, which then use them to slaughter children, judges, journalists, cops, and anyone else who gets in their way.

As CBS News reports: “The legal battle marks the first time that the Supreme Court will consider a federal law known as the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, or PLCAA. Enacted with bipartisan support from Congress in 2005, the law provides a legal shield for gun companies from civil suits seeking to hold them liable for harms stemming from the criminal misuse of their products by another person.”

Thankfully, it looks like the High Court is poised to give the Mexican government a good stiff-arm. If the tone of Tuesday’s arguments is any indication, even the Supremes’ liberal wing seems disinclined to hold law-abiding American companies accountable for the firearms that are regularly trafficked across our southern border.

At issue is whether the suit can move forward because it rates an exception to PLCAA’s liability shield. That exception says that gunmakers and sellers can be sued if they knowingly broke the law and thereby injured Mexico, whose government claims that the defendants are “aiding and abetting the unlawful sale of their firearms to straw purchasers, which are then trafficked across the southern border for the cartels.”

Justice Elena Kagan wondered who, exactly, the gunmakers are “aiding and abetting in this complaint,” while Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson said that the lawsuit doesn’t even seem to be alleging that the gunmakers knowingly violated the law.

Justice Brett Kavanaugh, for his part, worried about the slippery slope that might lead to liability and lawsuits against other lawful American industries.

The defendants’ lawyer, Noel Francisco, points to the Rube Goldbergian nature of the plaintiffs’ blame game: “That chain starts with the federally licensed manufacturers, flows to wholesalers who sell to licensed dealers, who then engage in unlawful sales of guns that are trafficked into Mexico and land with the cartels. The final links are the guns being used to commit crimes that injure property and people, and the Mexican government being forced to spend money to respond to that fallout.”

Can the gunmakers be legally liable because they know that some small share of weapons end up being sold illegally and because they don’t do more to stop it? Francisco responds: “No case in history supports that theory.”

In a Wall Street Journal op-ed, former Trump Attorney General William Barr calls the Mexican government’s theory of liability “absurd,” noting that the “age-old doctrine of ‘proximate cause’ ensured that parties can be held liable only for harms that are the direct and immediate consequence of their own actions.”

Barr adds that the tactic of bankrupting the gun industry via an onslaught of nuisance litigation had been tried before: “In the late 1990s and early 2000s, activists in deep-blue state and local governments invented novel tort theories to hold America’s legal and heavily regulated gun industry responsible for urban crime.”

It didn’t work then, and it shouldn’t work now, Barr believes. He points to Mexico’s failure to stand up to the cartels. “Violence continued and the cartels tightened their grip on Mexican society,” he writes. “What better way to deflect blame than to claim that the American gun industry was responsible for the cartels’ success?”

This, it seems to us, is the real issue: The Mexican government is unable to protect its people, and it’s trying to set up the American gun manufacturing industry as the “proximate cause” fall guy.

My sense is that the Supreme Court isn’t buying it.
We need to park a carrier strike group off the pacific coast of Mexico... That will wake the government up to the fact that the cartels need to go....
 
This is a no brainer. Non starter, just send them packing. Agree with the comments that they haven't even showed who the gun manufacturers are aiding and abetting. "who, exactly, the gunmakers are aiding and abetting in this complaint." I am sure the violence in their country is ONLY because of the gun manufacturers, not their inability to police their country!
 
Hi all,

well, im Mexican and been live at US and MX, im a gun enthusiast, try to enjoy a good hunting or range time, however, this move is the most stupid thing ever, that any MX Citizen did not stand by, is just brainwash politics, im shame from my government to do such stupid thing, like someone said here, is like sue car industries for drunk drivers.

Sadly, situation down here is not good, not as it was, we got caught by a very ****ty government, that is thinking about to strict gun world every day, instead face crime and corruption. Admire a lot your second amendment, you all can be safe and keep your family save, please keep supporting it. Hope one day can have something similar that yours.

Cheers from GDL MX
Regards
 
btw, this Marcelo Ebrad, is the one who start this as a politic campaign for the current president; was an ochlocracy move, nothing more, they know that is impossible

Cheers
 
We need to park a carrier strike group off the pacific coast of Mexico... That will wake the government up to the fact that the cartels need to go....
Second that, crime is like a tumor, im hoping really for external help to deal with this issue
 
We need to park a carrier strike group off the pacific coast of Mexico... That will wake the government up to the fact that the cartels need to go....
I guess going after the cartels is out of the question when they are running your country...
 
Only if Mexico agrees to pay $100,000 for every comic book style guide the Mexican government provided to instruct illegal border jumpers on how to cross into our country illegally, and also repay America for the cost of housing, feeding, schooling, and otherwise providing illegals from Mexico with sustenance and care.

And then they reimburse Ameicans and legal resident aliens for criminal acts perpetrated by Mexican border jumpers and drug cartels.

 
It's a legitimate concern. Their drug problems are caused by buyers up north. And their gun problems are caused by illegal sales from border state gun stores. I get knee-jerk responses to anything gun. But this is a problem that's ours to solve. If their case plays out, some of our gun stores have participated in smuggling guns to Mexico.

It's also not their job to defend the borders of any other sovereign nation. It's our job to protect our borders. It's pretty idiotic to expect them (or Canada) to do it for us.

So in the end here, the question is whether we should stop causing them problems. It's not whether they have the right to try to stop us.

Sometimes this a cauldron where individual reasoning ceases to happen. Are we not opposed to gun smuggling?
 
Smuggling of any contraband (guns or drugs or people) should be dealt with at its source. Cross border smuggling in large quantities is an indication of how porous the borders have become. That needs to be addressed. It’s not Colt or S&W or SIG problem if unscrupulous dealers are illegally proving arms to the Cartel. It’s our responsibility to stop those criminals smugglers. It’s also our responsibility to address our drug problems. However…..Same holds for Mexico- they have created, or allowed to be created, a criminal enterprise and an environment of government corruption that encourages their citizens to escape their own country (which in itself has created a human smuggling network). What is Mexico doing to improve the lives of their citizens so they don’t have to escape their country instead of suing firearms manufacturers here?
Otherwise, duly noted, carry on…….
 
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