Microstamping: Has any manufacturer agreed to do this?

Thanks for the clarification. That seems even more ridiculous if you can change the firing pin out to alter the ID of the firearm.

It might be a good time to sell Cali off to Mexico for some hard eared drug money. :D

I read your comment to my wife -- who is Mexican -- and she said "Why would they pay for what they are already taking?" Hmmmm. I think she was just being glib and sassy, but it's a reflection of attitude if that's the first thing she comes up with.
 
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Another non-solution to help criminals. I know if I were a gangbanger, I'd pick up any "microstamped" spent cases and sprinkle them liberally (Heh-Heh) around the guy I just shot. Keep the po-po busy for quite awhile. Joe
 
Every gun law passed after the ratification of the 2nd amendment in 1791 is unconstitutional. The simple phrase "shall not be infringed" has been overlooked for too long...................... This microstamping is just the result of incrementalism. They've chipped away at our rights for so long, we've become used to it. Now their plan has come to fruition and the source of legal guns is going away.

And like the frog in the pot we are thankful for being kept warm.
 
..and the best part about micro stamping is that after millions in legal wrangling, more millions in design, test and manufacturing, you'll find a youtube vid the first week that shows how to disable this feature on any gun in three minutes.
 
..and the best part about micro stamping is that after millions in legal wrangling, more millions in design, test and manufacturing, you'll find a youtube vid the first week that shows how to disable this feature on any gun in three minutes.


^Absolutely Correct, Sir!^


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If the process is patented and the state mandates its use, doesn't this fall afoul of anti-trust laws regarding state-guranteed monopolies, and interstate commerce regulation?

Seems like a Sherman Act violation to my non-lawerly noggin.
 
Guys it is not just the firing pin.

Under CA laws, the microstamping array needs to stamp the shell casing in two or more locations.
So, just a firing pin that microstamps will not comply with CA's microstamping requirement.



Penal Code 31910
As used in this part, "unsafe handgun" means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, for which any of the following is true:
(b) For a pistol:
(7) (A) Commencing January 1, 2010, for all semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 32015, it is not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol, etched or otherwise imprinted in two or more places on the interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and that are transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is fired, provided that the Department of Justice certifies that the technology used to create the imprint is available to more than one manufacturer unencumbered by any patent restrictions.
(B) The Attorney General may also approve a method of equal or greater reliability and effectiveness in identifying the specific serial number of a firearm from spent cartridge casings discharged by that firearm than that which is set forth in this paragraph, to be thereafter required as otherwise set forth by this paragraph where the Attorney General certifies that this new method is also unencumbered by any patent restrictions. Approval by the Attorney General shall include notice of that fact via regulations adopted by the Attorney General for purposes of implementing that method for purposes of this paragraph.
(C) The microscopic array of characters required by this section shall not be considered the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's number, or other mark of identification, including any distinguishing number or mark assigned by the Department of Justice, within the meaning of Sections 23900 and 23920.
__________________
 
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I think California has to take one for the team here. Let most manufacturers drip out. They'll probably only have locally made guns available there. Similar to S&W in Massachusetts. One LGS stopped selling new handguns here because he can sell less than 20% of what's available nationwide. .
 
The law was signed in 2007. Because it was patented, they successfully got an injunction against implementation. The patent expired in 2013 which nullified the validity of the injunction and allowed microstamping to proceed because it was available to any manufacturer.

No. The microstamp is done by the firing pin. Therefore, it marks the primer as the gun is fired. So, it won't affect reloaders because a new primer is inserted every time.

However, your thought has merit. All a criminal would have to do is get some brass from a range. Then spread it around at the scene of a shooting. That would bring reasonable doubt that any particular gun was used thus nullifying the microstamp as viable evidence.


Every gun law passed after the ratification of the 2nd amendment in 1791 is unconstitutional. The simple phrase "shall not be infringed" has been overlooked for too long. The fact that CA has an "approved" gun list is at the very least an active attempt to limit free trade which is one of the founding concepts of the US Constitution. This microstamping is just the result of incrementalism. They've chipped away at our rights for so long, we've become used to it. Now their plan has come to fruition and the source of legal guns is going away. They are so stupid that they don't realize that this isn't the source of guns used illegally.

What's worse is that the politicians aren't doing this because they are anti gun or even for control. They're doing this because they think it's popular and will get them re-elected. That's all, it's a job saving ploy.

If it were really a conscious attack we could fight it. But, because it's irrational, there's no way we can reason with these people.

Quite so, and clearly correct.
The greatest mistake on our part is to assume the purpose of the law is what they say it is, and the next greatest is for us to believe "they think like we think". They do not, any more than an habitual criminal thinks like a normal citizen. And are we not actually seeing a criminal mind-one that is actively circumventing and breaking the Constitutional restrictions on government?
 
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Guys it is not just the firing pin.

Remember under CA laws, the microstamping array needs to stamp the shell casing in two or more locations.
So, just a firing pin that microstamps will not comply with CA's microstamping requirement.

Fascinating. That's the first I've heard that it had to be in two places. Unless you could meet that by doing it in two places on the firing pin (unlikely) you have serious design issues. It would have to hit the back of the casing somehow but what slide does that with enough force on either loading or ejection? I have no idea how any revolver could do it.

Wow, what a joke. Could be very important in the case since they've made it so hard for any existing gun to meet the requirement if I'm understanding this right. SCOTUS ruled in MacDonald that banning a huge percentage of guns available for self defense was a 2A violation. This could fall under that ruling, though I don't expect the 9th District to rule that way. It'll take SCOTUS to do it in the end IMO.
 
Day may come when we can't afford to wait for the SCOTUS to bail us out. The McDonald decision was just spat on by a Federal judge(Skretny) in NY, he effectively banned a whole class of weapons purely on looks. CT is waiting for a similar ruling by the end of next week on their ban, from another Federal judge.
The NY case will go to the Supremes, and when we win, then what? The same thing will happen over and over again, maybe in NY, maybe somewhere else.
It's hard to rely on SCOTUS decisions with a gov't and judiciary out of control.


I must give credit to a poster on another forum, who posted this:

"How does the Supreme Court enforce its rulings? They have no law enforcers of their own, no armies, they do not even have the soap box by which to directly appeal to popular opinion, since to do so would should bias and prejudice in their court decisions and proceedings.

Heller and McDonald were clear, concise cases that upheld the 2nd Amendment, regardless of any criticisms anyone may have about any particulars of those decisions. And yet, we have courts ignoring those clear decisions, and offering nonsense rulings like the one Skretny offered."
 
Day may come when we can't afford to wait for the SCOTUS to bail us out. The McDonald decision was just spat on by a Federal judge(Skretny) in NY, he effectively banned a whole class of weapons purely on looks. CT is waiting for a similar ruling by the end of next week on their ban, from another Federal judge.
The NY case will go to the Supremes, and when we win, then what? The same thing will happen over and over again, maybe in NY, maybe somewhere else.
It's hard to rely on SCOTUS decisions with a gov't and judiciary out of control.


I must give credit to a poster on another forum, who posted this:

"How does the Supreme Court enforce its rulings? They have no law enforcers of their own, no armies, they do not even have the soap box by which to directly appeal to popular opinion, since to do so would should bias and prejudice in their court decisions and proceedings.

Heller and McDonald were clear, concise cases that upheld the 2nd Amendment, regardless of any criticisms anyone may have about any particulars of those decisions. And yet, we have courts ignoring those clear decisions, and offering nonsense rulings like the one Skretny offered."

That's 100% true, but short of armed insurrection it's not like we have a lot of other options, esp. in states with such high concentrations of the common sense challenged.

SCOTUS has never had any actual enforcement power. John Marshall established review in Marbury v Madison but the power has always been one of convention, and we have a President right now who more than any other in history cares nothing for the conventions of our national government, and is going to pack the federal courts as much as possible.

The only real hope we have is that the Senate turns in November which stops the bleeding and then win the white house and hold the senate in 2016 and start reversing the damage. Other than the insurrection thing, which I wont' entirely rule out in this nation's future given the massive schism developing between what I'd call "Constitutional America" and "European Wannabe America".

But there have been some positive rulings as well. The 7th District ruled in line with MacDonald and Heller in overturning the Chicago ban, and other courts have made decisions in line with those rulings. The courts have never fully fallen in lock step, those judges all have their opinions and even SCOTUS has some seriously mental midgets when it comes to the 2nd Amendment, they're just in the minority right now.

I hope that gun owners everywhere unite, which goes to the thread elsewhere on why so many don't join the NRA and be active in their support and votiing on these issues. Most of that IMO is that it's hard to get the message out to the casual gun owner as to what these laws mean and why it's important to take up the fight on legislation that has been carefully crafted to sound innocuous but is actually very serious.

Microstamping is a GREAT example of it. It's technical, a lot of voters immediately close off when they find out they may have to STUDY something to form an opinion, and it SOUNDS like it's to help law enforcement and won't impair gun ownership. It's classic politics, passing a law that gets to the goal through a backdoor b/c they can't win support by declaring what they really want to do. It's hard to explain to people and even harder to get them to take time to email or call or join the NRA or vote out the people who supported it.

In Cali I don't know what else is left but the courts, other than my proposal to split the San Francisco Bay area off into a separate country, which I believe would solve a lot of problems nationwide by turning Cali into a red state and isolating the insanity away from us.

I won't be surprised if an initial victory is won somewhere in this, to be overturned by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, to then have to go to SCOTUS, if they decide to touch it. I would argue it on the basis of both 2nd Amendment and unjustifiably interfering with interstate commerce.
 
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I wonder if brass catchers will require registration or just be banned?

Could really boost the market for stolen revolvers. the gangs could carry Model 10s, start cutting their hair high and tight, get thin ties and nice white shirts, go for the whole 50s retro look.

At least when you turn a revolver sideways to shoot it you don't increase the odds of it stovepiping. :D
 
I read your comment to my wife -- who is Mexican -- and she said "Why would they pay for what they are already taking?" Hmmmm. I think she was just being glib and sassy, but it's a reflection of attitude if that's the first thing she comes up with.

Your wife is more correct than you might think. There are border areas in the U.S. that for all practical purposes are now part of Mexico. They remain American in name only.
 
Hmmm...I predict black powder guns to make a come back.

I predict more revolvers being able to shoot shot gun loads, up from the current .410....Other than telling what gauge the shot was, no way to judge if it was shot from a Winchester, a Savage or a Mossberg

I predict either a gun mfg'r or some some whizz bang inventor to come up with a new system to fire a bullet without having to strike a primer to set off same.

I predict Zip guns will make a come back.

I predict we will see 10 or 15 shot revolvers come into the market.

I predict your made before 2013 semi-automatic will become very valuable.

I predict after market firing pins from Brownell's (sp) will become expensive to buy.

I predict the B G's ain't going to care, one way or the other.


You heard it here first!!!!



WuzzFuzz
 
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Your wife is more correct than you might think. There are border areas in the U.S. that for all practical purposes are now part of Mexico. They remain American in name only.

Such as: Brownsville, Roma, etc etc etc etc. Harlingen is getting bad as it seems to be a MAJOR hum for illegal aliens to meet up in.. McAllen is still good though.
 
If the major manufacturers decided not to sell to CA, including Law Enforcement, there is a chance the law would be repealed. Barrett did it, but they are not a high volume manufacturer. Sig, Glock, Smith, Ruger, H&K would all have to decide not to sell anything to anyone in CA.

Even though the law exempts LE agencies, the gun manufacturers should refuse any sales.

I'm not holding my breath, though.
 
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