Military News Army Rolls Out Army Green Uniform, Renames Combat Patch

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Looks like the service (saucer) hat has the "50 mission" crush that was so suave and macho in years gone by.Also looks more like a peaked cap, which is not American looking.
Why not bring back the Ike jacket ? Make it easier to enforce weight control. And the garrison cap with glider patch, that is our tradition, not these berets.
The Marines have long had a Combat Action Badge since their doctrine has long been that every Marine is a rifleman first. In Vietnam you had to be in country at least 30 days to get your CIB, and you had to be infantry. I know of one case where MPs who regularly accompanied the grunts as POW handlers were put in for it, and were turned down.

 

[BigBoy99]

I guess the new uniform is the spare time work of the new military "thought police" which are being established to ensure uniformity of thought in the Army ranks.

 

[Justin T]

For the Army -

Combat Infantry Badge

Combat Action Badge

Combat Medical Badge

Notice that they all have oak leaves. Also, there are requirements that have to be met before someone is qualified to wear the badge.

An uncle earned his combat medical badge in War 2 in the Philippines. He was part of "Doughboy White". Terrible stuff.

 

[Retired W4]

Typical military, concentrating on eyewash and dazzle to cover serious problems and moral deficiencies. It seems that every conflict has to have its own look so you can tell at a glance what time period it is in. The adoption of the forest green uniform in the 1950s covered up the adoption of the idiotic "up or out" promotion policy for officers which was at the root of so many problems in Vietnam and the confusion and disorganization of the Pentomic Division which was a major fiasco.

Is there a patch or decoration for those who engage armed enemy forces in combat.

Yea, for aviators they are called Air medals and DFCs. That and $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee. The "up or out" policy continued well after VN.

Question: Is the CAB w/ M-9 bayo retroactive to those conflict prior to it's introduction?

 

[billwill]

Could the pentagon people just wash all tanks once a week and be more productive.

 

[Ματθιας]

Yea, for aviators they are called Air medals and DFCs. That and $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee. The "up or out" policy continued well after VN.

Question: Is the CAB w/ M-9 bayo retroactive to those conflict prior to it's introduction?

Off the top of my head, the CAB came out in 2004-5, and was retroactive to 2001.

I think the Marines are or were up or out at least until the late 1990s.

 

[Ματθιας]

BTW, My point about the patch name change is how nasty words like "combat patch" are changed to make them less ugly, softer, Euphemisms.

For example, "Shell Shock" in WW1, then it became "Battle Fatigue" in WW2, then "Operational Exhaustion" in Korea, and then "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" for Vietnam, all for the exact same condition.

"Shoulder Sleeve Insignia Military Operations in Hostile Conditions".

 

[Donn]

It would be nice if the Army invested as much time and money in war fighting training as they do changing uniforms every few years.

 

[Fishslayer]

Of course I was in the Air Force and we looked like fancy bus drivers.

I got issued those dawgawful double breasted blues with a combination hat. First liberty from boot camp was a trip to 7 Seas for some proper crackerjacks and dixie cups.

It would be nice if the Army invested as much time and money in war fighting training as they do changing uniforms every few years.

I have a bad feeling that you ain't seen nothin' yet.

 

[cmort666]

The blue uniform was an abomination.

 

[bushmaster1313]

During my Army time (1968-1972) those of us serving in infantry units were a little arrogant about the CIB (Combat Infantryman Badge). Those who held the CIB usually wore only that, not the usual rack of ribbons denoting various medals. The general consensus was that the CIB says it all, only awarded to those who had actually engaged in ground combat with enemy forces. Commanders occasionally included orders for certain events requiring "all awards and decorations", otherwise most of us never displayed our medals or ribbons.

The CMB (Combat Medic Badge) was highly respected. Again, only one way to get it and that was to go out in the bush with the bad guys and get the job done under hostile fire. The medic was the guy everyone took care of in the field. Medics were not required to carry weapons, but many chose to do so, and more than one earned serious combat decorations (just being there and doing their jobs was more than enough to earn all the respect in the world).

The CAB (Combat Action Badge) came along much later (Desert Storm era, IIRC). Awarded to soldiers of any specialty who actually served in combat engagements. Seems appropriate to me, lots of support troops find themselves in the middle of a fight.

The Army is an enormous entity. The generally accepted premise was that for every soldier "at the sharp end of the stick" (combat arms such as infantry, armor, artillery, etc) there were a dozen more soldiers in support roles (supply, transportation, administration, cooks, maintenance, etc).

Lots of people look at the CIB and see the old musket, assume it to be a marksmanship award. To infantrymen the CIB says "been there, done that". All the rest is just colorful decoration.

I only knew one guy with a 3-star CIB (4th award), veteran of WW2, Korea, Dominican Republic, and Vietnam. Old master sergeant when I knew him, also held the Distinguished Service Medal (one short step below the Medal of Honor), Silver Star, Bronze Star and just about every campaign and service medal ever thought of during his long career. He was an old single guy, owned a small hotel in Taipei, Taiwan and intended to retire there. I hope he has done well because he earned every bit of his retirement, 30 years and 4 wars.

One of my former bosses in the 1980's told me that he wanted to see a rifleman badge before hearing a war story

Now I know what he was talking about

 

[Steve912]

It would be nice if the Army invested as much time and money in war fighting training as they do changing uniforms every few years.

It's a sort of peace-time thing, for admin stuff
like dress uniforms and PT tests, or re-writing
Army regs to change terminology (without any
other substantive change) for stuff that's been
around for ages.

Officers furnish their raters with a "support form",
that lists their accomplishments, prior to receiving
their ratings. Basically, a "tell me what you
accomplished during the rating period" summary.

For O's in the upper echelons in
peace time, listing something like "designed,
procured and fielded improved Class A uniform",
gives the rater something to comment on.

During times with more combat operations,
the changes will be more combat-related--
a boot sole with improved wear-resistance,
a magazine that functions better in sandy
environment, doctrinal changes to evolving
threats (dealing with IED, VBIEDs, etc).

IME, the Army functioned better in combat
than it did in peacetime, thankfully. Hope
it stays that way.

 

[madsweeney]

Among the many reasons I left the CG was the change of the jr. enlisted uniforms to what we called the Canadian Bus Driver togs

 

[Muley Gil]

Must be the same bunch that calls a zipper an "interlocking sliding fastener". Look up zipper under I, not Z.

In the huge Navy supply book that I saw while aboard the USS Semmes, DDG 18, back in 1973, a zipper was "Fastener, sliding, interlocking."

I went to Afghanistan in 2004 as a police advisor. Early in 2005, a new training center (Afghan police academy) was being built for us. After we moved in, we had a nice mess hall. A few months later, I heard the site manager talking about the "D-fac". I finally asked what the heck was he talking about. He explained that D-fac stood for Dining facility. So what the heck was wrong with mess hall???? The police mission had been under the US Department of State, but was being transferred to DOD, hence the Army terms.

So, does anyone know know when the Army started using the term "D-fac?"

 

[Muley Gil]

"I only knew one guy with a 3-star CIB (4th award), veteran of WW2, Korea, Dominican Republic, and Vietnam. Old master sergeant when I knew him, also held the Distinguished Service Medal (one short step below the Medal of Honor), Silver Star, Bronze Star and just about every campaign and service medal ever thought of during his long career. He was an old single guy, owned a small hotel in Taipei, Taiwan and intended to retire there. I hope he has done well because he earned every bit of his retirement, 30 years and 4 wars."

The Army Distinguished Service Cross is one step below the Medal of Honor, followed by the DS Medal, the Silver Star, etc.

 

[Ματθιας]

I only knew one guy with a 3-star CIB (4th award), veteran of WW2, Korea, Dominican Republic, and Vietnam. Old master sergeant when I knew him, also held the Distinguished Service Medal (one short step below the Medal of Honor), Silver Star, Bronze Star and just about every campaign and service medal ever thought of during his long career. He was an old single guy, owned a small hotel in Taipei, Taiwan and intended to retire there. I hope he has done well because he earned every bit of his retirement, 30 years and 4 wars.

Looking back at this post I realized something - There are only 4 periods for a CIB to be awarded;

World War II (7 December 1941 to 3 September 1945)

Korean War (27 June 1950 to 27 July 1953)

Vietnam War and other Cold War era actions (2 March 1961 to 10 March 1995)

War on Terror (18 September 2001 to a date to be determined)


Operation Power Pack (Dominican Republic) April 1965 - Sept 1965 and Vietnam were concurrent. According to the regs, he couldn't be awarded two separate CIBs for operations during the same time period. Maybe, I'm wrong, but I don't think separate CIBs are awarded for an infantryman who fought at separate times in Iraq, A-stan, or Syria, within the perpetual War on Terror time period. Again, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

"I only knew one guy with a 3-star CIB (4th award), veteran of WW2, Korea, Dominican Republic, and Vietnam. Old master sergeant when I knew him, also held the Distinguished Service Medal (one short step below the Medal of Honor), Silver Star, Bronze Star and just about every campaign and service medal ever thought of during his long career. He was an old single guy, owned a small hotel in Taipei, Taiwan and intended to retire there. I hope he has done well because he earned every bit of his retirement, 30 years and 4 wars."

The Army Distinguished Service Cross is one step below the Medal of Honor, followed by the DS Medal, the Silver Star, etc.

Thank you for this correction. I wrote from memories of 50 years ago, and I may have been mistaken. Neither the DSC or the DSM is common enough that I recall seeing either one more than a time or two. It is entirely possible that my memory has failed me.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Looking back at this post I realized something - There are only 4 periods for a CIB to be awarded;

World War II (7 December 1941 to 3 September 1945)

Korean War (27 June 1950 to 27 July 1953)

Vietnam War and other Cold War era actions (2 March 1961 to 10 March 1995)

War on Terror (18 September 2001 to a date to be determined)


Operation Power Pack (Dominican Republic) April 1965 - Sept 1965 and Vietnam were concurrent. According to the regs, he couldn't be awarded two separate CIBs for operations during the same time period. Maybe, I'm wrong, but I don't think separate CIBs are awarded for an infantryman who fought at separate times in Iraq, A-stan, or Syria, within the perpetual War on Terror time period. Again, maybe I'm wrong.

You may be right. During that time period the CIB was awarded at the order of unit commanders, typically at battalion or brigade level. An order awarding the badge might name dozens, perhaps hundreds, of individual infantrymen involved in a particular action, and those orders would be posted to each serviceman's personnel file (201 file). The time period under discussion was not one of routine or letter-perfect record keeping at every level. It is entirely possible that his name was included on orders for the CIB, and no one involved was aware of the distinctions you have mentioned.

Master Sergeant Gibson was an infantry non-commissioned officer, airborne qualified (master parachutist) with combat jumps during WW2. He later served in Korea as an infantryman, then later with the 82nd Airborne Division in Dominican Republic, and I knew him while serving with the 101st Airborne Division in Vietnam. I personally administered first aid when he was wounded, and I remember him joking about another Purple Heart to add to his collection.

I can speak only about my experiences in Vietnam and of that immediate time period. There are awards reflected in my 201 file that I knew nothing about until I was discharged and noticed them on my DD-214. We had very few formal award ceremonies in Vietnam, most decorations were simply mailed to a soldier's home of record with orders and citations, sometimes months later. Whether or not copies of orders were ever posted to 201 files was sometimes a matter of a clerk-typist in an office somewhere. Then there was the fire at the Army Records Center at Fort Benjamin Harrison when many servicemens' records were lost forever.

I also recall awards of the CIB to non-infantry personnel who served in an infantry capacity, such as clerks, cooks, and military police manning the bunker line during ground assaults. I believe that this was within the discretion of unit commanders.

I am also aware of awards of the CIB during the invasion of Grenada and also the forceful removal of Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega. I have no idea how many of those may have been veterans of Vietnam or Dominican Republic, but the likelihood exists and many unit commanders may have issued orders naming entire unit rosters.

Careful scrutiny of records in light of regulations may have taken place, possibly in this modern era of computerized data retrieval. If that happened at all it was probably long after Master Sergeant Gibson claimed his retirement, and I doubt anyone will ever make an issue over it.

 

[ameridaddy]

have mentioned.
...
I also recall awards of the CIB to non-infantry personnel who served in an infantry capacity, such as clerks, cooks, and military police manning the bunker line during ground assaults. I believe that this was within the discretion of unit commanders.

A late friend of mine had a CIB from his service in the Korean war. I knew he was a signalman/radio operator, so I asked him how he came to have a CIB, explaining to him that I understood that current regs restrict the award to someone with the infantry MOS.
His was a legitimate award; he showed me the orders awarding it to him and some other men in his signal company, along with pictures of him in the lines along some God-forsaken mountainside.
They had all been under fire as radio operators for artillery spotters, and the CO of the infantry they supported recommended the award.

 

[bushmaster1313]

My FIL was in Korea. Only talked to my wife and I about it once. Left cover to assist a wounded soldier under fire. In his effects was a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart and some rectangular blue badges—but nothing with a rifle. His discharge mentioned the V device. I don't remember if it said CIB. He was in a dangerous forward position with the Army, combat engineer. Does it make sense that he would not have a CIB?