Model 1

[cruzans]

Picked up a Model 1 from my local gunshop today. I shop there often and he always takes care of me. Sold this little guy to me for pennies and I had to have it just for the fun of it I believe it is a Model 1, third issue? From around 1870 or so? Any info. would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[gmborkovic]

I like the blue and grips. Does it appear to function correctly. Any wiggle at the hinge.

 

[cruzans]

It does have a little wiggle for sure. The "sight" for lack of better terms, than comes up over the hammer, then drops once cocked doesn't seem to travel completely down also to engage the cylinder. Only off slightly, but didn't want to try bending it which is what it seems to need. But seems to function correctly …..

 

[opoefc]

Pls. don't try to bend anything on this gun, as you will most likely wind up with broken parts. Best thing is to disassemble the gun as much as you can and do a thorough cleaning of what is probably 150 yrs of crude, dried oil and deceased tiny critters. 99% of the time that will return the gun to a properly functioning item. The gun is a 1st model 3 variation and appears reasonably unmolested by prior owners and a decent representation of this model.The hinges are always a bit "wobbly" and that can be tightened up by a slight but very careful "squeezing" of the frame ears in a padded vice. Good luck, Ed.

 

[model3sw]

Mark Twain on the S&W .22 (Model 1):

" I was armed to the teeth with a pitiful little Smith & Wesson's seven-shooter, which carried a ball like a homoeopathic pill, and it took the whole seven to make a dose for an adult. But I thought it was grand. It appeared to me to be a dangerous weapon. It only had one fault--you could not hit anything with it.

One of our "conductors" practiced awhile on a cow with it, and as long as she stood still and behaved herself she was safe; but as soon as she went to moving about, and he got to shooting at other things, she came to grief."

Comment: I have a few of them tucked away, too, but never got up the nerve to fire any one of them. I suppose with a .22 short (is it CB cap ?) it would be fine but you're solely on your own, at your own risk. Have it checked over by a qualified gunsmith who is familiar with these oldies... before you try shooting it, I suggest.

 

[glowe]

What is the serial number? We could approximate the ship date with the number. I do shoot mine and over the years put a fair amount of ammo through them with zero incidents. CCI CB Shorts work well, but are a little hard to find.

From years of testing ammo that I have done, I found that CB Shorts offer lower velocities than original black powder loads. Averaging all old time manufactured BP ammo I have shot, you will find around 600 to 650 fps with black powder, while the CCI 22 Short runs around 500 to 550 fps. That gives me confidence to shoot them once and awhile. These guns are not accurate -period!! You can hit a target consistently at 10 feet, but much further away will yield less than stellar performance.

There is always a risk of breaking a part, not because of the ammo, but because these guns are 150 years old, so shooting them is not risk free, but to be able to know how they function and how they perform is great fun.

 

[BMur]

Little gun shops

Nice little Smith! The finish is exceptional.
I’m envious of your small gun shop visits. I use to do the same here in the Bay Area. All the historic shops are closed now. “ Torpedoed by the Anti-gun cult/ extremists!
The small shops are great for catching so many antiques found by contractors remodeling old homes etc. You wouldn’t believe how many antique Smiths I came across from add ons in the biggest anti-gun town on the planet? Berkeley! Contractors would find them in walls, behind mantles, basements, attics, etc. then I suppose they’d Pocket them and sell them to my favorite gun shop in North Oakland. Siegel’s Guns. It’s shameful what this Area has become.
I wonder where the contractors unload there little finds now?

Murph

 

[model3sw]

Never supposed to clean or polish an antique gun unless ...

It's been advised to never clean or polish an antique (anything).

I would agree unless you truly know what you're doing.

On these Model 1s I learned years back. when they're blue, they are usually blue however when one looks unusually BLACK ... don't ask me the particulars because it's usually a gut feeling ... the frame could likely be a Silver plated.

A quick look under the stocks will start to reveal the mystery. Use a very soft cloth (e.g. cotton cheese cloth), Q-tips (with little or no pressure in the crevices) using Flitz or another very light polish (made sure no coarse grit polish) to find the original finish was, in fact, "silver".

I think the OPs revolver is likely a blue finish. However ... just sometimes .... when they appear completely BLACK, take the time to investigate further. Silver plating tarnishes to black (I mean a COMPLETE black) over decades of storage.

I have always been uncertain of what the exact difference(s) between "silver" and "German silver" are. The definitions of German silver often vary depending upon the source. In one instance you'd possibly think German silver is "nickel" and in another instance you might think it's "coin silver" as in old pocket watch cases. 65 years old and still learning.

It's always worth the time for a closer look and careful examination.

At a local show about 6 months ago, a friend and dealer (who does not collect nor deal in the old S&Ws) calls me over to his tables to ask me what this was and if I was interested. It was in stunning condition but completely BLACK. I advised him it was silver and not a re-blued gun as he previously thought. I purchased it with his approval to take over the negotiation.

Anyone else have that same experience ? Sal Raimondi, Sr.

 

[glowe]

That one is almost certainly blued. There were some silver plate 3rd Models out there, but I would say that is a rare occurance. S&W used pure silver to plate and if anyone here is old enough to know about their mother's sterling silver place settings, it was necessary to polish the oxidation off them before every use.

German silver contains alloys such as copper, zinc, nickel, lead, and/or tin. These products contain very little if any silver, and were alloyed to retard the oxidation rate of the silver and so the polished component stayed bright for much longer than pure silver plate. Sterling silver, was over 90% silver, leading to rapid oxidation under normal conditions.

 

[gmborkovic]

Q tips VS. pipe cleaners for cleaning. Q tips always leave cotton strands behind. Pipe cleaners never do. I use a pipe cleaner that is a little more fluffy than the regular ones. Use and throw away. Nothing is more fun to see than old cruddy screw slots full of goop. Especially grip screws.
As been stated, leave all the harsh cleaning equipment for the grill.

 

[BMur]

The Purist vs The Market

Real old school collectors use to tell me years ago “ Don’t mess with the finish”! Leave it original! As found! The simple truth is the Market does not agree with them in my opinion.
Silver finish is an excellent example. Leave it as found? All soot black and scummy? Like a chunk of coal? Or gently bring it back? I say bring it back! The Market does not recognize original scum as valuable from my experience.
I saw a silver finish 41 Reid Knuckleduster sell for $37,000 a few years back and they “ gently “ cleaned the Silver finish to bring out the Silver Patina color. Which I think is very attractive. I don’t think it would have sold for that much had they left it as found like a hunk of charcoal?
Hey maybe I’m wrong? But I have “never” seen an antique at a large auction in “ AS FOUND” condition. Except possibly relics?
In fact every auction that I won the curator would deliver the antique gun to me all oiled up in a soft cloth or in a box in the same condition.

 

[gmborkovic]

To heck with the market! Respectfully. We are all collectors and purists.
If you want to buff up something, buy a 1954 Buick! Preserve the old stuff.
They are getting few and far between. Gently cleaned means somebody took all the honest history away. If you find one, leave it alone.

 

[cruzans]

Thanks everyone - I plan on leaving it pretty much as is! Serial number hard to make out - 5 digits , looks like 039xx but not positive. We looked it up in the S&W bible and it says value goes from $80 in poor condition to $2,500 in mint / new condition. I picked it up for the neat factor, not for investment and don't think I can go wrong for the $25 I dished out - lol. Thanks again for all the info. everyone!

 

[iby]

Sal

German silver contains no silver.
Also known as Nickel silver

 

[H Richard]

I stand in the camp of the "clean it up to be presentable". I don't think it harms and very often enhances the value. I found this Number 1, 1st, 3rd in a Proxibid covered (but local) auction about a year ago. As it sat dirty, black, among all the shiny or plastic fantastic handguns no one paid any attention to it. I recognized the "silver plate" under the black. I bought it for $200. Look up what the book say's it's worth. Here's before and after.

 

[glowe]

I am in the camp of cleaning brass and plate if you want to. It makes no difference either way as far as how I would value the piece. Your 1st Issue would be worth way more in your cleaned after condition than in the before condition for the majority of potential buyers. Silver plate was supposed to be polished, just like brass ornaments on muzzleloaders. I usually clean the brass on my flintlock rifles once or twice a year. I also polish the wood with Renaissance Wax, which does change the look and could also be construed as altering the gun's originality by some.

I picked this one up a few years ago and shoot it regularly. It was built by Leonard Meadows, from Beckley, WV, in 1969. He and Hacker Martin were well known gunmakers from the late 1950s through the 1960s. This was his heavy barrel target rifle and am sure it saw lots of use before I acquired it.

Silver was one of the many alloys that could be used in the process of making German Silver. Small amounts of less than 10% were added by some makers in the 1800s to give the silver look and was better than the "chrome" look of Nickel Silver, plus was much cheaper to make. "Silver plate" with no silver was called Nickel Silver by most.