Model 10 +p rating
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diamonback68
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You should have no problem with +P in them if you don't mind the recoil and expense. Any model marked gun is just fine with them.
Art Doc
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Any pistol in 38 Special will "handle" +P just fine as +P is loaded well below industry pressure standards. It is a commonly held MYTH that +P is any sort of hot load. Pure marketing hype to stamp it +P.
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crofoot629
Absent Comrade
Saxon, really?
I have a 1920's era M&P and was advised by another Forum member not to shoot +P 38's in it.
Emory
I have a 1920's era M&P and was advised by another Forum member not to shoot +P 38's in it.
Emory
bagolden
Member
I'm sure a real expert will chime in but... Somewhere in the teens or twenties S&W started heat treating the cylinders. Most folks do not recommend "hot" loads in those. I had one from the late teens that wasn't heat treated. Only problem I ever had with my normal loads was not related to the metallurgy. The chambers were smaller and my cases were too fat to load easily.
You received good advise.
Could you fire off 6 rounds of +P's in a 1920's M&P? Probably
Is it adviseable? Nope.
Stick with standard loads and enjoy your antique. It's kind of drag racing a model T Ford. Sure you can do it, but what's the point.
Art Doc
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I would not use max loads in a pre-1930 gun due to imprecise tempering.
But +P is not a max load. I would have no qualms about +P in a 1920s gun.
But +P is not a max load. I would have no qualms about +P in a 1920s gun.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
I'm with SaxonPig on this one.
+P ammo just isn't that hot. Hell, +P+ isn't that hot either - a 147 grain bullet at 950 fps isn't going to blow any Smith and Wesson up, regardless of vintage, and certainly not a relatively new gun like a Model 10.
LE: Ballistics Detail
+P ammo just isn't that hot. Hell, +P+ isn't that hot either - a 147 grain bullet at 950 fps isn't going to blow any Smith and Wesson up, regardless of vintage, and certainly not a relatively new gun like a Model 10.
LE: Ballistics Detail
FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, DON'T SHOOT ANY +P AMMO IN YOUR M10 ! THEY ARE LOADED TO SKY-HIGH PRESSURES AND WILL BLOW YOUR GUN TO BITS AND MAYBE KILL YOU, TOO ! !
Just kidding - go ahead and use what you want - your M10 will take it just fine.
Larry
Just kidding - go ahead and use what you want - your M10 will take it just fine.
Larry
Saxonpig has done a lot of research on the subject. His opinion is informed.
That being said, Smith & Wesson states the following concerning +P:
“Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety built into some revolvers and could therefore be DANGEROUS. This ammunition should not be used in Smith & Wesson medium (K frame) revolvers manufactured prior to 1958. Such pre-1958 medium (K-frame) revolvers can be identified by the absence of a model number stamped inside the yoke cut of the frame (i.e., the area of the frame exposed when the cylinder is in the open position).
Keep in mind that S&W also states the following concerning ammunition (which I violate every day as I hand load):
Use only commercially manufactured ammunition with internal ballistic pressures which are in strict accordance with the specifications of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI).
Be certain all ammunition you use complies with the SAAMI specifications. If you are uncertain, contact your ammunition supplier for verification.
So, according to S&W you can shoot commercially produced +P in your model 10.
That being said, Smith & Wesson states the following concerning +P:
“Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety built into some revolvers and could therefore be DANGEROUS. This ammunition should not be used in Smith & Wesson medium (K frame) revolvers manufactured prior to 1958. Such pre-1958 medium (K-frame) revolvers can be identified by the absence of a model number stamped inside the yoke cut of the frame (i.e., the area of the frame exposed when the cylinder is in the open position).
Keep in mind that S&W also states the following concerning ammunition (which I violate every day as I hand load):
Use only commercially manufactured ammunition with internal ballistic pressures which are in strict accordance with the specifications of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI).
Be certain all ammunition you use complies with the SAAMI specifications. If you are uncertain, contact your ammunition supplier for verification.
So, according to S&W you can shoot commercially produced +P in your model 10.
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ANY bullet will wear a gun. The higher the pressure, the faster the wear - just like ANY other mechanical devise, using it causes wear.
Your M10 will handle +P ammo just fine. Will +P wear the gun faster than standard velocity ammo----sure, so use it once in a while for familiarization and carry / self defense purposes. For regular practice use standard factory loading's.
That's my .02 cents.........
Chief38
Your M10 will handle +P ammo just fine. Will +P wear the gun faster than standard velocity ammo----sure, so use it once in a while for familiarization and carry / self defense purposes. For regular practice use standard factory loading's.
That's my .02 cents.........
Chief38
Art Doc
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Yes, +P "generates pressures in excess of standard ammo." BUT!!!!! Standard is 16,000 PSI... +P is 18,000... and the maximum allowable is 21,000. So +P does indeed generate higher pressure than standard ammo, but far less than maximum allowable.
If +P were dangerous to older guns they would not sell it. Too afraid of lawsuits. That's why +P is loaded so weak, and advertised as powerful. They want people to think +P is a hot load. It is, in fact, a wimp.
If +P were dangerous to older guns they would not sell it. Too afraid of lawsuits. That's why +P is loaded so weak, and advertised as powerful. They want people to think +P is a hot load. It is, in fact, a wimp.
JIMSPD9
Member
The mod 10 was our issue weapon at the PD in 1970. There was no +P ammo in those days. A fellow officer and I tried to reload the 158 grain JHP (if I remember standard powder load was 4.6 grains) to 5.6 grains Unique brand powder. We were young and maybe a little dumb, but the model 10 handled those just fine. They were hard on the ears, but we carried that combo on the street for years.
Over penetration is a saftey concern and a civil liability. Standard .38 may be your answer.
Your 70s era mod 10 should be fine however.
Over penetration is a saftey concern and a civil liability. Standard .38 may be your answer.
Your 70s era mod 10 should be fine however.
Saxonpig, was .38 special ever loaded to aproach the 21,000 PSI limit, or is that just a theoretical maximum? After all, all engineering works out maximums and then backs off for a prudent margin of safety. .38 spl +p in my MOD 10 seems pretty zippy. From what you are saying it seems a a REAL +P load, not a wimpy watered down load, would be aproaching the .357 Mag level of perceived performance. (I must confess I loaded a few moderate .357 Mag loads (fast powder not nearly filling the case) in .38 spl cases one time and they did fine out of a .357.)
ArchAngelCD
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I have a 4" S&W M&P that's dated 1948. I bought it in Nov of 2009 and I have shot a lot of +P ammo through it since. Most has been the Remington FBI Load. This revolver is still as tight as the day I bought it and as tight as the day in 1948 the original owner bought it too...
I do not shoot my hot FBI replica loads in this revolver though because I have a feeling they are at or just above the original .38 Special pressure limits and I like that revolver too much to take a chance on harming it!
I do not shoot my hot FBI replica loads in this revolver though because I have a feeling they are at or just above the original .38 Special pressure limits and I like that revolver too much to take a chance on harming it!
