Model 13-2 FBI

[RKmesa]

Eliza:

Very nice photos of some great guns...

I have really always wanted a pinned and recessed 3" barreled M65 to actually carry and use but the only ones I have even heard of were issued to the Massachusetts State Police...and I have never actually seen one of them. Sadly, I am a "P&R snob," so the multitude of later 3" barreled M65s will just not do!

N_itis:

Do you mean a 3" P&R 65 like this 65-2? It has a set of custom smoothed and rounded Ahrends FG's on it and one of the smoothest triggers on any Smith that I own - it is the perfect carry smith (at least for me). BTW - it is the only 3" P&R 65 that I have seen in person...

I also have a recessed, but not pinned 3" 13-2. I sure like these guns...

 

[Malysh]

Are Mod 13-2s rare?

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by RKmesa: ...I also have a recessed, but not pinned 3" 13-2...

RK; Recessed is important if for appearance sake if nothing else but the "Pin" hasn't be 'needed' since 1957 and was kept around just kept around because <span class="ev_code_RED">"A thing call tradition." </span>!!! And, this is a direct Quote from the man who holds the S&WCA Badge Number 1.

**********PART II**********

Eliza; It's tough admitting the French ever did anything "right" but then I think about them asking for a 9MM Luger revolver that would work without Moon Clips, to begin with, and have to wonder just how much "they" had to do with the final 'Design' of this gun.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Malysh: Are Mod 13-2s rare?

They were in production from 1977 to 1982 when the -3 change came around, so, I would guess there were a pretty large number of them manufactured but that doesn't mean there are a lot of them on the "market" because the folks who were buying these were buying them to shoot - strange as that may seem!!! Shooters, especially, LEOs who have been "taught" to 'Point Shoot' understand that Adjustable Sights Aren't really all that 'necessary' and can be just one more thing to have go 'wrong' with a sidearm. Many Agencies still issue guns with fixed sights because that is the way most Law Enforcement shootings go down - no body can even remember seeing the Sights! They're too busy looking at the SOB who's shooting at them to care. Hopefully, they've been properly trained to Point Shoot and their 'Training' kicks in.

 

[SteveM]

I have a 13 - 3" that I bought in 1981 from J&G Sales. Its a 13-2 and is P & R. serial is 8D74XXX. Do you think this one may also be FBI. J&G was heavily involved with law enforcement sales back then. Mine came with the box and it does have a S&W service depatment stamp on the frame under the grips - I guess either for a repair or a finish correction. At the time J&G alluded to the fact of the gun being a "sample" or "demonstrator" piece and I bought it at a price discounted from wholesale dealer prices. I was not able to get any clear or factual info on their comment from them. At the time I did not really think much of it or put much into its relevance. I was just wanting to by the gun for the price. I cant really tell if its been fired. The recoil sheild does not have a mark on it nor do I see any accumulation between the barrel and frame

At the same time I also bought a Model 10-8 with a 3" barrel Serial 6D58XXX. In the box label under "Stock" - they are listed as "TR" - any idea what this means ?

Any comments by any of the previous posters would be appreciated

 

[Guest]

SteveM; The ONLY way to truly answer your question would be with a Factory Letter from Roy Jinks. Currently they cost $50.00 and you can expect at least a couple of months worth of wait.

 

[SteveM]

Yea, I know - dont know if I want to mess with it right now or not

 

[N_itis]

Originally posted by RKmesa:
Eliza:

Very nice photos of some great guns...

I have really always wanted a pinned and recessed 3" barreled M65 to actually carry and use but the only ones I have even heard of were issued to the Massachusetts State Police...and I have never actually seen one of them. Sadly, I am a "P&R snob," so the multitude of later 3" barreled M65s will just not do!

N_itis:

Do you mean a 3" P&R 65 like this 65-2? It has a set of custom smoothed and rounded Ahrends FG's on it and one of the smoothest triggers on any Smith that I own - it is the perfect carry smith (at least for me). BTW - it is the only 3" P&R 65 that I have seen in person...

I also have a recessed, but not pinned 3" 13-2. I sure like these guns...

Beautiful gun, RKmesa. Exactly what I was talking about.

Thanks for sharing and disspelling my "defensive delusion" that there were no commercially available pinned and recessed 3" barrelled M65s. Deep down I knew better. Know I cannot rest until I find My Grail.

 

[Texas Star]

The French variation was designed by Raymond Sasia, head of a police unit there and a man who studied with the FBI here.

I believe that I recall reading that he headed the Presidential Hunting Service, a euphemism for the French President's personal bodyguard.

One photo here shows a One of Fifty legend. I have no idea how many were made, but the fifty may represent guns shipped to non LEO destinations.

T-Star

 

[Mickstix]

Great pics of some fine firearms!! Ladyfed, I especially like your arrangement and display!! Looks like a pro background/lighting!!

 

[LadyFed]

Originally posted by Mickstix:
Great pics of some fine firearms!! Ladyfed, I especially like your arrangement and display!! Looks like a pro background/lighting!!

Mickstix, thanks for the compliment but I have to give credit to the old man, 29-1 for the picture taking. He's been trying to learn how to take better photos this past year and he's doing pretty good with it.

RK:Thank's for the Model 65 photos. I assume this is the gun the Model 13 evolved into? After reading your comment about your 13-2 that is recessed with no pin, the one in the picture that shipped in Nov/81 is like that as well. But, as KKG explains, the pin isn't needed anyway. It looks like it has a function though on the ones that have it

KKG:
Texas Star:
Thanks guys for the continuing dialog and schooling on this subject. It's good to hear from people that have 'been there and done that' and know what they're talking about.
Eliza

 

[Guest]

Eliza; You're Welcome I always look forward to your Postings because of your more 'current' knowledge of the FBI.

 

[hoopewlchaser]

Hi Eliza, thanks for the info. and the pics, what you posted there is exactly what I have, I'm a TFO here in New York and I found this gun from a retired agent from colorado who now lives in Virginia, the only thing i'm not sure about is the creds# I will pull the gun out and look at it, otherwise like I said everything you have there is what I have the plate was never even engraved, I might just hold onto it, I was thinking about selling it pretty much up in the air, again thanks for the info.

 

[dnater]

The M13s were eventually "replaced" by non pinned and recessed 3" barreled M65-3s around 1982 or 1983; but, apparently, both M65s and M13s were issued interchangably prior to the "trials" of various "wondernines" in the mid 1980s. From the comments I have heard, the guns were well regarded but required the immediate addition of Pachmayer grips!

I attended the FBI Academy in 1986 and was issued a 3"M13, as were all my fellow agents. The M65 was not an issue weapon with FBI, but I believe it was DEA issue at the time. All the issue FBI guns had wood grips and Pachmayr grip adapters. We got the revolver, a Safariland JK-2 speedloader with Safariland pouch, a thumb break holster and a 2x2x2 drop pouch. The leather was tan in color and from Bucheimer(?).

 

[RKmesa]

KKG:

I also am a P&R snob (not sure exactly why) and the R'd only 13-2 3" is the only non P'd Smith that I own. It's just that those 3" inch tubes are soo cool, that I decided to buy the gun, not to mention that if I recall correctly the the price started with a 2.

I also remember reading #1's comments on the pin and its purpose, or lack thereof - very interesting. I'm sure glad that we still have him around.

 

[LadyFed]

Originally posted by dnater:

The M13s were eventually "replaced" by non pinned and recessed 3" barreled M65-3s around 1982 or 1983; but, apparently, both M65s and M13s were issued interchangably prior to the "trials" of various "wondernines" in the mid 1980s. From the comments I have heard, the guns were well regarded but required the immediate addition of Pachmayer grips!

I attended the FBI Academy in 1986 and was issued a 3"M13, as were all my fellow agents. The M65 was not an issue weapon with FBI, but I believe it was DEA issue at the time. All the issue FBI guns had wood grips and Pachmayr grip adapters. We got the revolver, a Safariland JK-2 speedloader with Safariland pouch, a thumb break holster and a 2x2x2 drop pouch. The leather was tan in color and from Bucheimer(?).

dnater, thanks for more good info. I now know the holster/ammo setup I need to locate.

Eliza

 

[FlaCat]

Bobby, the FBI Commem Revolver was ordered through the FBIAA (FBI Agents Association) and sold only to Special Agents, active and retired. Each was specially numbered and most had the agents credential number engraved just above the trigger guard on the left side. Not all were however as some were produced without a number and these are actually quite rare. The full outfit includes the gun, wooden box, outside cardboard box, shipping carton with the agents name written on the side, the cardboard gun box with bar code label and the tools. There is also a white envelope that holds the brass plate for the presentation case and another small envelope for the key. There is also a couple of information sheets explaining the history of the FBI and S&W. All total this can go from 7-1500 depending on completeness. Here's a picture of what I just described.

SCS&W says that 3200 were made.
Any idea, LadyFed, how much these cost the agents in 1983 when they were sold?

 

[tac803]

I finally acquired a mod 13-2, nickel, 3" rd butt recessed and not pinned, sn 9D33XXX. I'm guessing it's "transitional", and I can't find any useful info about this variant in the SCSW. The frame is marked N, so it's factory nickel. Does anybody know if the FBI used any nickel guns at all?

 

[armadillo]

That is an amazing find.

I know that the FBI bought a lot of M-13s, but the federal government rules on disposition of fireatms does not allow them to be resold. When they went to semi-autos, many of the revolvers were disabled and made into "red handles" for training.

I guess it is possible that it could have been "surplused" and dontated to a non-fed agency that later traded it for a newer model.

 

[ENGINE18]

Well, you all made my day! IMHO, the 3-inch fixed-sight k-frames are perfect. The 13/65 configuration is my favorite. Although I confess to owning "only" a 65-5, a 13/65 P&R is on my list.