Model 18-4 - Tight Chamber & FTF Problem

[just plain joe]

I recently purchased a Model 18-4 from one of the big auction houses. The revolver was fired very little, if at all.

Today I took it to the range. I found it very difficult to load one of the chambers with .22 Long Rifle cartridges. I had cleaned the chambers prior to the session. Thinking that it might be the ammunition, I tried two other types of quality factory cartridges. I still had much difficulty inserting a cartridge in the one chamber; the other five were fine. I also experienced multiple failures to fire with the adjacent chamber. When struck a second time, the cartridge fired.

Between cylinders, I dry brushed the chambers. After I used a toothbrush to remove debris beneath the extractor, the failure to fire problem was alleviated.

I checked the area of the cylinder/extractor where the cartridge enters. I don't see anything major that would rub against the nose of the bullet and/or cartridge case.

I waiting on a return call from the seller. In the mean time I was wondering if anyone else has experienced these problems.

I checked this forum and most of the postings refer to chamber reaming in order to facilitate easier case extraction. My problem seems to be with cartridge insertion.

Thanks in advance for any help.

JPJ

 

[chief38]

Vintage M18's & M17's are known to have tight Chambers - most ammo fits in tightly and is hard to extract. Many of us have reamed out the Chambers in the Cylinder with a Reamer from Brownell's. If you do a search here you will find a plethora of info on the issue along with a simple fix.

 

[Peak53]

You almost certainly have one of two or maybe both problems. A very aggressive cleaning of the chambers with a brass brush may help, but you may need to brush again after a couple of cylinders fired. Failing that, you may want to look into polishing the charge holes - plenty of info available by searching. Failing THAT, the charge holes just may be too tight and you can look into cylinder reaming. The fact that you are having trouble fully inserting fresh rounds leads me to think that you have a build up in the holes that may not be evident to the eye and leading to FTF. I have four K-22's and am happy with the polishing route on two; the other two I reamed to great success.

 

[sigp220.45]

I have owned several K frame .22s of the M-17 & M-18 varieties. Every one was a pain to load and extract. I have given up on them. Life is too short.

I know, I know - you have one that has fired a box car full of cheap .22s and the empties just fall out when you ask them. Keep it!

To the OP - you might as well rent a reamer and do all the chambers.

 

[oysterer]

I don't buy it...all ammo is a bit different and the good CCI SVs or Fed blue box are going to be alright. Let the cylinder soak in Ballistol or Kroil for a few days, then go at it with a good quality bronze bristle brush for a good few passes, repeat a few times, dry well and it should be good. I would not ream my 1959 K22 which shoots a 2'' group at 25' with my eyes closed...

 

[Krogen]

I've experienced difficulty extracting cases in an M17. Cleaning the charge holes alleviated the trouble for a while. The solution was ammo selection. Waxed or greased bullets were the worst. Copper washed bullets work just fine. Unfortunately copper washed are typically high velocity and the standard velocity rounds I prefer are waxed or greased. Such is life with a 17 or 18. It's a well-known, long-evident problem. But, I'm not about to ream the charge holes no mater what people are saying. Can't put that metal back in place, eh?

 

[chief38]

I've experienced difficulty extracting cases in an M17. Cleaning the charge holes alleviated the trouble for a while. The solution was ammo selection. Waxed or greased bullets were the worst. Copper washed bullets work just fine. Unfortunately copper washed are typically high velocity and the standard velocity rounds I prefer are waxed or greased. Such is life with a 17 or 18. It's a well-known, long-evident problem. But, I'm not about to ream the charge holes no mater what people are saying. Can't put that metal back in place, eh?

I understand your objection to altering a factory revolver - I fully get it. That said, it makes for a very frustrating shooting session and having to slam the Ejector Rod to push out the empties every time you shoot it. Just keeping the Chambers clean only works for about 12 - 18 rounds and then its back to "jam-o-rama" time. I've got two M18's and one was so bad I had no choice but to ream..... the other isn't bad at all and only requires a somewhat sharper ER tap so I left that one alone.

To ream or not to ream solely depends on just how frustrating and tight your particular Chambers actually are. They do vary somewhat but in general are too tight in my opinion and this complaint is decades old! One would have thought S&W would have corrected this many decades ago. Colt's do not exhibit this issue and are just as accurate.

 

[Ron IL]

Boy I had a new 18-4 I wish I never sold. Having recently getting back into revolvers that is a regret. One thing I would also look for is if someone had dry fired it and put a dimple on the cylinder. If not a really good cleaning and shoot plated CCI or Federal for a test. If CCI won't work good after a good cleaning then you have a problem that reaming may be the only fix.

 

[Protocall_Design]

What most people don't seem to understand is that the reamer won't take out any more material than what it's made for. If the chambers are already the right size, the reamer won't cut anything.

The factory reamers in a production environment are subject to wear. If they are not replaced in a timely manner, they are cutting ever smaller holes. This seems to be the case with the S&W .22 revolvers.

If you get a SAMMI spec. reamer, and it takes out material, the chamber was under the correct size that was intended by the factory. A lot of people seem to think that the factory is totally infallible and you will be struck dead by lightning from the Gun Gods if you do anything to alter a gun from the way it came in the box. I can tell you from experience that isn't the case, or I would have been gone a long time ago.

If the ammo won't go in or come out of the chamber, something isn't right. There's a long thread on this forum of people who have fixed this very problem and were happy with the outcome.

 

[chief38]

Oh- I forgot to mention this! Two of my friends who bought 2 new M17's (back in the day) were both so tight they sent them back to the factory for S&W to ream the Chambers themselves. Problems solved - so the Factory reamed them also upon customer complaints.

 

[Hondo44]

Your tell-tale symptom is that only one chamber is a problem. You need to investigate that chamber with magnification. I've fixed this many times on different revolvers, mostly .22s.

The usual problem is burring around the the chamber mouth from the original machining. Carefully check the edges of the mouth of the chamber edge, the rim recess edge, and the edges of the extractor with a magnifying glass. This is not rocket science. Conscientious inspection/observation is your friend!

Remove the "knife edge" sharpness of the edges. If you still have a problem hone that chamber with 1000 grit sandpaper wrapped around a cleaning mop, brass brush, or wooden dowel that fits the chamber a bit loose until wrapped with the sandpaper. Cut a slit in the end of the dowel for the end of the paper to hook in and wrap it with layers of paper until snug in the chamber. It will polish out the machining marks and/or slightly enlarge the chamber, if a bit under size, w/o having to resort to more invasive/expense of reaming.

Please report back.

 

[just plain joe]

I wanted to take this opportunity to thank each of you that responded to my initial post. Lots of good information, as always. Learning has occurred!

I called S & W this morning and asked to speak with a tech. No one available. They suggested that I send it in. I went back over the post responses and decided to try the following.

I chucked a brass brush into my Dremel. I applied Kroil and J & B Compound onto the brush. I ran the brush at low speed. After repeated applications the problem seems to have been solved. There is very little resistance to placing a loaded .22 LR into the problem chamber.

I'm going to try to get to the range in the next few days. Hopefully there will be no problems with this or the FTF. When I do I will report back.

This has been somewhat disconcerting. I have had a Model 17-4 since the 1980's. No problem with insertion or extraction. It's been flawless.

Thanks again to all.

JPJ

 

[alwslate]

Some years ago I bought an 18-4 in used but in new condition at a gun show. The first time I fired it I found out why I got an as new revolver in the box with tools and papers at a great price. I was going to get rid of it but I bought a chamber reamer on here from another member. After hand reaming the chambers I love the gun. It should never left the factory with chambers so tight as to be nearly useless.

 

[just plain joe]

I had the opportunity to make it to the range late yesterday. I shot approximately 70-80 rounds of Remington Mohawk lead and Federal 34 grain copper jacketed hollow points. There were no failures to fire and no problems with insertion or extraction. The weapon functioned flawlessly.

Thanks again to all who provided input.

JPJ

 

[PattonTime]

Tight chambers

As was stated by one poster, there are degrees, yours sounds like it was not as bad as some of mine were.
I had some with some real shavings, when I was done, even CCI Mini mags took serious force to get in the chamber prior to reaming.
I also had one Model 34 early on, I believe it was the first revolver I ever bought on GB, it was sold to me as unfired, which when I went to the range was very evident as neither myself nor any other helpful employees or other shooters could find a brand of ammo that would enter a chamber.
I called S & W, they said to send it in but that I would pay for everything.
About ten days later, back at my office, never even got a call and they had reamed them PERFECTLY!!